Yesterday's music today

[karmattack]

I had two four-hour car rides this weekend to visit family and on the way, I was playing Stereo Commando [switching CD's like crazy]. In my rampage, I started comparing the music and thinking about which bands of today fit the roles of classic bands of yesterday*. I didn't get far, but here's what I've got:

1. The Who / Pearl Jam
2. The Doors / Tool
3. Pink Floyd / Radiohead
4. The Beatles / Don't have the balls to touch this one.
5. The Greatful Dead / Phish [gimme]
[here's where I start needing help. P.S. What do you think so far?]

5. Led Zeppelin /
6. The Rolling Stones /
7. Simon & Garfunkel /
8. Joni Mitchell /
9. The Allman Brothers /
10. Miles Davis /
Discuss. On a sidenote, what role to you think some bands and musicians like NIN, Marilyn Manson, Mos Def, The Roots, Rage Against The Machine, Queens of the Stone Age, The Foo Fighter and so-on would fit into from past generations?

*even though some of the classic band I listed still tour and put out music, I'm talking about their prime when the music was at its peak and effecting generations of people.

[jjcourtright]

It looks good so far. My friends think I am crazy when I mention The Doors and Tool in the same sentence. The Doors certainly do not hold a candle to Tool from a technical standpoint, but I think that the same muse is/was at work in both bands.

[karmattack]

Agreed.
...dark poetry, intellectualism, experimentation...and a little something I haven't put my finger on yet.
I compare Ray Manzarek to Danny Carey especially when I think of those two bands because of their technical skills -- Manzarek playing bass lines and piano melodies at the same time like Danny uses mixed-meter in his drumming. But what's really weird is how much those two actually look alike.

[Ryall]

Let's see here...

5. Led Zeppelin / The White Stripes -- you might think I'm crazy, but the vocals and bluesy guitar work doesn't sound so different from old Zep
6. The Rolling Stones / U2 -- not for the sound, per se, but just for the sheer fact that they're really the only band of our generation to last for the past 20 years and maybe the next 20. I almost said Metallica, too, since people loved their older stuff, like the Stones, and have hated more of their recent commercial work, like with the Stones. Of course, as I type this, it just hits me that the obvious counterpart is Aerosmith, although I don't know that they count as a "today's" band
7. Simon & Garfunkel / The Jayhawks, who are maybe closer to The Byrds, but still. My back-up choice'd be Ryan Adams
8. Joni Mitchell / Um...I hope no one says Sheryl Crow...maybe Tori Amos or Fiona Apple just for the personal lyrics and introspective music. I know the keyboard thing doesn't compare to Mitchell's sound. Lucinda Williams? Shelby Lynne?
9. The Allman Brothers / Wilco? Grandaddy?
10. Miles Davis / The Mars Volta -- I know they play rock, but some of their time changes and free-form riffing would sound right at home on Kind of Blue

Discuss. On a sidenote, what role to you think some bands and musicians like NIN, Marilyn Manson, Mos Def, The Roots, Rage Against The Machine, Queens of the Stone Age, The Foo Fighter and so-on would fit into from past generations?

Nine Inch Nails...eh, I don't know about them. Their sound sounds really dated to me, and I can't quite think of anyone back in time to compare them to. Same with Marilyn. Bands like Mos Def and The Roots are probably close in spirit to Curtis Mayfield or someone--good, accessible music that nonetheless sang about some serious topics and had good messages. I guess the obvious comparison with Rage would be the MC5, but maybe even Bob Dylan would be a good comparison, just for the protest messages in the music. QOTSA, I'd say is our Black Sabbath and the Foos are probably our early Kiss -- they just wanna rawk and have a good time while doing it. That's not a great comparison but I'm stumped and hungry so it has to do while I go get a sandwhich.

Nice post!

[jjcourtright]

http://www.geocities.com/sparkazul/fotos/ray3.jpg http://www.toolpantheon.com/danny1.gif Agreed. Check out the similarities here.

[DangerSeeker]

I'd actually liken the Beatles to U2, and have for sometime. The main reason is because they left behind what was proven to work for them in favor of experimenting with new sounds, branching out, and trying vastly different things, successful commercially, critically, or not. THey also were able to return in a fashion to heir roots on occasion.

I'd liken NIN to Velvet Underground or the like, a new sound, a lot of pain, heroin, etc.

[psychofiend]

Beatles and Weezer discuss...
http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drc500/c529/c5298632s13.jpg http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/dre700/e752/e75228sz4zk.jpg

[karmattack]

Honestly, I think there is just too much to what The Beatles attempted and accomplished to compare them to anyone else.
1. They started out with pop love songs and grew into a new, inventive sound with deeper, poetic meaning.
2. They forever changed the way music sounds and what people try to achieve with music.
3. They were, in terms of #1 hits, the most popular band [emphasis on the word band] of all time.
4. Their music has been and will continue to be embraced and studied for decades.

Now, there are plenty of bands that have bits and pieces of qualities they share with The Beatles, but I highly doubt anyone can claim there's a band that equals or rivals what they've done.

[karmattack]

The more I think about Rage Against the Machine, the more I liken them to The Dead Kennedys. They're like a combo of The Dead Kennedys and Public Enemy. Then again, I haven't heard the band you named (MC5). By the way, likening them to Bob Dylan is unexpected and kind of kickass.
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
6. The Rolling Stones / U2 -- not for the sound, per se, but just for the sheer fact that they're really the only band of our generation to last for the past 20 years and maybe the next 20.

[/ QUOTE ] Dern good call.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
8. Joni Mitchell / Um...I hope no one says Sheryl Crow...maybe Tori Amos or Fiona Apple just for the personal lyrics and introspective music. I know the keyboard thing doesn't compare to Mitchell's sound. Lucinda Williams? Shelby Lynne?

[/ QUOTE ]
I thought the obvious answer would have been Sarah McLachalan. Tori is a really good call though [her new album is awesome].

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
10. Miles Davis / The Mars Volta -- I know they play rock, but some of their time changes and free-form riffing would sound right at home on Kind of Blue


[/ QUOTE ]
Dude, are you serious? You compare Mars Volta to Miles Davis? I'm going to have to check them out. If they suck, expect hatemail.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
QOTSA, I'd say is our Black Sabbath and the Foos are probably our early Kiss -- they just wanna rawk and have a good time while doing it. That's not a great comparison but I'm stumped and hungry so it has to do while I go get a sandwhich

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, I think those are both really good. I actually kind of wish I had come up with them. You may have just become my Ambassador of Kwan.

[Ryall]

I gotta say, if you listen to The Mars Volta and expect to hear Miles-ish music, you're gonna hate me. I'm comparing more their ability to have all kinds of free-form stop-starts in the music, but it's rock, not jazz. You can hear a little of their stuff at their Web site (http://www.themarsvolta.com) but the sound is nothing like Miles. More the mindset--they just do all these random changes and jazzy riffs in the middle of long (7-10-minute) songs. I wasn't thinking too literally with them.

The Dead Kennedys/Rage thing is a good one, too. As for the MC5, "Kick Out the Jams" on Rage's "Renegades" disc is one of their tunes. They're a 70s protest rock band out of Detroit.

[psychofiend]

I've always thought of Marilyn Manson as the new Ozzy Osbourne. They are bot very offensive to people and were blamed for suicide related incidents to name a couple likenesses.
http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drc300/c371/c37191l7d5b.jpg &amp; http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/dre300/e316/e31620krp6x.jpg

[Ryall]

Unfortunately, I think Manson is more like our Alice Cooper. In a few years, everyone will be amazed they were scared to let their kids listen to his music and he'll be playing in golf tournaments.

Judas Priest got blamed for causing suicides, too, but I'm pretty sure that was only in reaction to the godawful leather clothes they wore, not because of their music.

[Razorback]

If we were in a bar drinking and you said something like "Tool is the modern-day Doors" I would probably cut you. However, since we are on the Internet and I can't grab you from here, I have to respectfully disagree.

TOOL is the greatest band in the history of music. the doors are no better or worse than Milli Vanilli, comparatively. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

RB

[psychofiend]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I think Manson is more like our Alice Cooper. In a few years, everyone will be amazed they were scared to let their kids listen to his music and he'll be playing in golf tournaments.


[/ QUOTE ]
Who's scared of him now??

[karmattack]

Alright, I heard the opinion. Back it up with something interesting and I might listen, otherwise your post sounded like Jayandbobrock learned to spell correctly.

Tool has been one of my top 3 most respected and listened to bands since Undertow was released. They are my biggest musical influence and what I aspire to when I create my own music with my band. I've seen them in concert 5 times. My point being, don't blow it off like I haven't earned the right to my observation.
First, The Doors is short for "The doors of perseption." Hmmm... sounds a bit like "A tool for learning."
Second, The Doors were a leading psychadelic band of their era. Would you argue Tool isn't that for us?
Third, Jim Morrison was a passionately dark poet and used the hypnotic music of The Doors to express it. Sounds like Maynard to me.
Fourth, they are both California rock bands -- hey, it counts for something.
Numero Cinco, listen to "The End" by The Doors and tell me it doesn't sound familiar. And if it doesn't, you at least can't tell me there isn't one-and-only-one band of this generation that does with their music what The Doors did with that song.

Your Milli Vanilli comment is retarded and has been stricken from the record.

[Zens_7s]

Normally I would jump all over this type of discussion. The problem is, I am stumped. In my mind, the reason why these bands are groundbreaking, earth-shattering, and generation-influencing is due to their uniqueness. Even if there is nothing new under the sun, there are new ways to present music that define a band and allow a thousand copycats to come in after.

The White Stripes influences are transparent, but they present the combination in a unique and damn cool way. Same thing I would say for Foo Fighters, Ryan Adams, The Black Keys, Lucinda Williams, QOTSA, Wilco, Tori Amos, the Jayhawks and a handful of others.

Everytime I get my finger on one, for example Bob Dylan to Jay Farrar, there is something about Jay that doesn't fit with Bob. Something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue? I cannot commit.

[Razorback]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Alright, I heard the opinion. Back it up with something interesting and I might listen, otherwise your post sounded like Jayandbobrock learned to spell correctly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Man this is funny because...

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
The Doors is short for "The doors of perseption."

[/ QUOTE ]

Spell it with me... p-e-r-C-e-p-t-i-o-n. Repeat.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Hmmm... sounds a bit like "A tool for learning."

[/ QUOTE ]

In your mind.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Second, The Doors were a leading psychadelic band of their era. Would you argue Tool isn't that for us?

[/ QUOTE ]

TOOL is not psychadelic [sic] (spell it with me, p-s-y-c-h-E-d-e-l-i-c) but philosophical, mythological and poetic. the doors are much more about the altered states while TOOL is about the message of the music (and the message within the message).

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Third, Jim Morrison was a passionately dark poet and used the hypnotic music of The Doors to express it. Sounds like Maynard to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Morrison was a hack of a poet. Produce one of his poems that even remotely compares to one of Maynard's and you win. Also, the music of TOOL is not intrinsically hypnotic; it is far more a deliberate assault on the ear of the listener (but we could argue that as being just my perception of the music).

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Fourth, they are both California rock bands -- hey, it counts for something.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are reaching.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Numero Cinco, listen to "The End" by The Doors and tell me it doesn't sound familiar. And if it doesn't, you at least can't tell me there isn't one-and-only-one band of this generation that does with their music what The Doors did with that song.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see nothing that equates the doors with TOOL.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Your Milli Vanilli comment is retarded and has been stricken from the record.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was meant to be retarded as I was kidding, hence the reason for the winkey at the end of that comment.

RB

[karmattack]

I'm not sure if it shows whether or not I deleted my last post, but I lost my composure in a response to RB. I'll shorten it and clean it up.

Sorry you worship this band so much RB. I think my points are arguable, regardless of whether or not I made a couple spelling mistakes. Honestly, you should rethink how much you want to be the person in Tool's song at the end of Salival. You know, the one that goes "...why don't you climb on and slide a mile six inches at a time on Maynard's dick?"

[Razorback]

I have never worshipped anything.

You have issues.

RB

[karmattack]

[Karmattack senses pawing at his knees. Something tugs his pantleg]

Did anyone else feel that? Must have been the wind.....odd. And I could have sworn I heard someone committing what Freud called "transference," along with some hollow nitpicking because they have no other point to make. So weird. I guess it was nothing.

So, anyway...on to my reply to Zens. I think more of what I meant by starting this thread was to talk about which bands of today more or less fit into the roles bands of the past honed or created. It wasn't originally about comparing music quality or skills, but about talking about what those roles are. </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Everytime I get my finger on one, for example Bob Dylan to Jay Farrar, there is something about Jay that doesn't fit with Bob. Something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue? I cannot commit.

[/ QUOTE ] So talk about 'em, that's what we're here for.

[psychofiend]

Man, this man knows his stuff... and so does he, boy oh boy this is gunna be fun. Let's do what they did during the Civil War, get our picnic baskets and watch.
"I'm not a slave to a god that doesn't exist
I'm not a slave to a world that doesn't give a [censored]
and when we were good just closed you eyes
so when we are bad
we'll scar your minds
FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT"
-Marilyn Manson

[Razorback]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Did anyone else feel that? Must have been the wind.....odd. And I could have sworn I heard someone committing what Freud called "transference," along with some hollow nitpicking because they have no other point to make. So weird. I guess it was nothing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you really this tightly wrapped? I had completely owned your sorry the doors worshipping arse and you began the name calling, handing me the argument on a platter.

A dead person would be a bigger intellectual challenge if compared with your screaming-baby debate skills.

RB

[karmattack]

So, debate it. Each time you talk, you say nothing but short quips and insults [I've been insulting, but at least I was critical]. How is what you say an argument in a logician's sense of the word? Your statements are meaningless and hollow. And since when did comparing The Doors to Tool become worship? Since equating your worship of Tool to my COMPARISON of them with The Doors perhaps? So go ahead and skeedaddle until you have something analytical and valuable to contribute to the forum, otherwise take your crying and nagging somewhere else.
Here's a Kleenex, Champ. Go wipe yourself off.

[psychofiend]

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!!!

[Razorback]

I debated your silly comparison and pointed out what TOOL is about, shooting down your poorly thought out points. Just because you chose to ignore it that doesn't mean that I need to continue either defending it or repositioning the argument so that you can understand it.

Perhaps you are too small-minded to grasp the complexity of a simple response but then that is not my problem. Your points about the similarity between the two bands were addressed and countered. What more do I need to do before you understand that?

Either you did not read my entire response or you are incapable of understanding what I said. Whatever the case, the problem is in your court, not mine. Try harder to pay attention and we won't run into this issue again.

Patting yourself on the back for skimming through my post and then pretending as if I never addressed your inanity makes you look bad. Anyone with a second-hand understanding of the English language can see that your points were answered. The fact that you do not speaks volumes about your ability to pay attention... the next time you engage me in some kind of text-based contention make sure to, at the least, rent some.

RB

[karmattack]

Transference, my friend. Look it up. I live for arguments like this.
First off, read your post. Here, I'll provide it with my responses in {}'s.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alright, I heard the opinion. Back it up with something interesting and I might listen, otherwise your post sounded like Jayandbobrock learned to spell correctly.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Man this is funny because...

In reply to:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Doors is short for "The doors of perseption."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Spell it with me... p-e-r-C-e-p-t-i-o-n. Repeat.
{yeah, that is funny, but doesn't argue anything that I really SAID. You might be trying to defuse my statements by humiliating me or equating my mistake to being intellectually inept. If that's your argument, nice try. Check -- you said nothing of value.}

In reply to:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hmmm... sounds a bit like "A tool for learning."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In your mind.
{because I read it in an article. Check -- you said nothing of value.}

In reply to:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Second, The Doors were a leading psychadelic band of their era. Would you argue Tool isn't that for us?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



TOOL is not psychadelic [sic] (spell it with me, p-s-y-c-h-E-d-e-l-i-c) but philosophical, mythological and poetic. the doors are much more about the altered states while TOOL is about the message of the music (and the message within the message).
{another attack at the spelling, wee. Anyway, Webster says psychEdelic is "1 a : of, relating to, or being drugs (as LSD) capable of producing abnormal psychic effects (as hallucinations) and sometimes psychic states resembling mental illness b : produced by or associated with the use of psychedelic drugs &lt;a psychedelic experience&gt;
2 : imitating, suggestive of, or reproducing effects (as distorted or bizarre images or sounds) resembling those produced by psychedelic drugs &lt;psychedelic color schemes&gt;." So Tool NOT being psychEdelic is why their music is so hypnotic, why they promote experimentation repeatedly and why Danny Carey uses the looped phrase "It's some kind of phsychedelic experience" in his drum solo Merkaba on the Salival album? And P.S., saying Tool is philosophical, mythological and poetic doesn't prove they aren't psychEdelic. Check -- you said nothing.}

In reply to:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Third, Jim Morrison was a passionately dark poet and used the hypnotic music of The Doors to express it. Sounds like Maynard to me.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morrison was a hack of a poet. Produce one of his poems that even remotely compares to one of Maynard's and you win. Also, the music of TOOL is not intrinsically hypnotic; it is far more a deliberate assault on the ear of the listener (but we could argue that as being just my perception of the music).
{We could also attribute Morrison being a hack of a poet to your perception, opinion and what you prefer to think. He's still a dark poet like I said, whether you admire his work or not. Check -- you said nothing.}

In reply to:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fourth, they are both California rock bands -- hey, it counts for something.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



You are reaching.
{Hence the "hey it counts for something." Check -- you said even more nothing.}

In reply to:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Numero Cinco, listen to "The End" by The Doors and tell me it doesn't sound familiar. And if it doesn't, you at least can't tell me there isn't one-and-only-one band of this generation that does with their music what The Doors did with that song.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I see nothing that equates the doors with TOOL.
{Wait, more nothing. No argument -- just a quip and an opinion. Me? I hear dark, passionate music, accented by hypnotic flamenco/ egyptian influenced guitar [like Adam Jones laced Undertow, Aenima, and Lateralus with]. I hear a troubled man singing introspectively [reference all Tool albums] about death [refererence Reflection on Lateralus] and Oedipus Complex [reference Freud and Karl Jung -- Tools biggest phychological reference on all four albums]

In reply to:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Your Milli Vanilli comment is retarded and has been stricken from the record.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



It was meant to be retarded as I was kidding, hence the reason for the winkey at the end of that comment.
{You're cute.}
RB
--------------------------------

So let me wrap this up in a pretty bow for you before you exit. I didn't ignore anything you said. I just replied to it all in general because all you said was one big, general, opinionated nothing. Call me all the names you want and try to belittle me any way you can, but you're struggling through this and we both know it. At least when I do it I'm using it to make a point. You do it because you have nothing else to say and that is a sign of true weakness. If I look bad it's because I'm being hardnosed and wasting so much time trying to get these ideas through your head. But keep coming back and trying because I love it. I'll work circlejerks around you over and over again.

[Razorback]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Transference, my friend. Look it up

[/ QUOTE ]

Reality, look it up.

I addressed the points that were most important. The musical comparison of the two bands (the only one that is important to this argument). There is none.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Check -- you said nothing.

[/ QUOTE ]

You may be the most boring antagonist yet.

Keep kidding yourself, it seems to work.

RB

[karmattack]

Ok, even though you've been trying to turn this into a school yard debate the whole time, I tried to keep it straight forward and intellectual -- for the most part anyway. Since you keep aspiring to hit new lows, I'm going to leave you here, sobbing and crying for attention though you may be. Good effort though, nice hussle.
[pats Razorback's cute lil' tushy]

[Razorback]

I am actually embarrassed to have argued with you. Newbies who post about Jay and Silent Bob are less ignorant. You are truly out to lunch on a different planet. You may just be the craziest person on these boards... you really believe that you have formed some great argument. /forums/images/icons/confused.gif

RB

[Zens_7s]

Hold up, wait a minute! (no, I am not quoting Salt n' Pepa)

Where did we go wrong here? An interesting topic has degenerated into a flame fest.

RB, you know the "milli-vanlli" comment was intended to instigate problems. It is wonderful that you eat your daily breakfast at the Tool buffet, but some of us like to leave the Tool buffet occasionally and eat over at the Doors one. Nowhere in the topic statement of this thread did I see the "and feel free to insult the people if your opinion does not agree with mine" sentence.

Where the rest of us reserve our hostility for the idiots who have difficulties with sentence construction, you use yours on the people that are trying to contribute. 90% of the time you have something great to add. The other 10% is devoted to beating someone with the arrogant stick. You intentionally try to bring out the worst in people.

It is precisely this reason I am afraid to voice my opinion about certain bands. Unlike movie criticism, music is a very important part of my life and having someone blanket insult me, without trying some tact, would get my panties in a bunch. You are a very intelligent man, who knows the difference between constructive criticism and mocking criticism.

Sitting back and waiting for the Wrath of Kahn to explode...

[brycejmcewen]

Do these guys know how to PARTY OR WHAT!?!?!?!?!

[karmattack]

More name-calling. You're embarrassing yourself and I'm loving every second of it. Keep coming back for the last word though, because you keep getting funnier and funnier with your banality and insanity. My mom said to never wrestle a pig because you'll both end up dirty and only the pig will like it. I look at your avatar and what do I see? Oh....the....irony....is....unbearable!
&lt;------love it

[Robbo_the_Hood]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
It is precisely this reason I am afraid to voice my opinion about certain bands.

[/ QUOTE ]

My dear, be not affraid. In all my days of dealing with RB I've learned that if he cannont comprise a constructive argument, then he just points out typos to prove your logic is flawed.

Now, the newbies generally deserve it. It lets them know most people aren't going to deal with crap. I do like that about him. When the veterans post, and all RB does is point out typos, well then you just realize that RB is nothing without his poopshoot personna.

So, My dear Zens, if you post a well thought out argument and RB replies with, "you're a stupid mispeller," then at least you know he couldn't think of anything logical to post.

[Razorback]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
RB, you know the "milli-vanlli" comment was intended to instigate problems. It is wonderful that you eat your daily breakfast at the Tool buffet, but some of us like to leave the Tool buffet occasionally and eat over at the Doors one. Nowhere in the topic statement of this thread did I see the "and feel free to insult the people if your opinion does not agree with mine" sentence.

[/ QUOTE ]

The winkey is the universal sign for "I am kidding." I was kidding.. in fact, most of my post was tongue-in-cheek. How anyone could take it literally is funny and speaks volumes about that person.

However, given that a lot of people take me the wrong way and think that I am being a pompous jerk most of the time... I can understand how a fan of the doors could have found my comments to be disrespectful.

Here is a funny little bit of information... I was, for a while, the lead singer in a the doors cover-band. I love the music, but I think that Morrison was a very bad poet. Simple.

As a musician, I also play many of the songs created by TOOL and so I think that I have a unique understanding of the two styles (as a singer and guitarist). From my perspective there is very little to compare the two bands, if anything at all. Could I over-explain that? Probably. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

I do think it interesting that you pick on me as being the instigator here. I can't force someone to take a joke literally. That was achieved via perception. My original response was abrasive but it was meant to be humorous as well. Once it was attacked (and I was attacked) I decided to respond in kind.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Where the rest of us reserve our hostility for the idiots who have difficulties with sentence construction, you use yours on the people that are trying to contribute

[/ QUOTE ]

One man's idiot is another man's genius. The social circle defines the terms... I don't play by anyones terms and so I never join any circle (even one ending in "jerk"). /forums/images/icons/smile.gif I only attack when I think it is deserved, despite what you and others may insinuate.

RB

[Razorback]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Now, the newbies generally deserve it. It lets them know most people aren't going to deal with crap. I do like that about him. When the veterans post, and all RB does is point out typos, well then you just realize that RB is nothing without his poopshoot personna.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is actually funny. Anyway, here comes the gang-up on Razorback. Cool.

RB

[brycejmcewen]

I've got no beef with Razorback. I think he wants us to gang up on him. We should all love him, and [censored] with his mind!

[karmattack]

Look, Razor, you might just backpedal out of this by taking the moral high ground and trying to make a few people feel guilty for ganging up on you. Even if you were "only joking," why don't you be a little bit more passive about it and less insulting? You ARE the antagonist the second you make a joke about stabbing or grabbing me. Then you follow up all the nonsense with empty insults. I won't speak for anyone else, but I have a right to criticize you about it whether you're "just joking" or not.
So, you've earned the right to your opinion about The Doors/Tool. Kudos. Being a guitarist who plays and sings The Doors and Tool, so have I. So just say you disagree, or come up with a well-thought rebuttal. Attacking, insulting, or threatening me or anyone else does nothing for you.
Think about it, man, and stop trying to "just joke" and backpedal out of it.

[Robbo_the_Hood]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
That is actually funny. Anyway, here comes the gang-up on Razorback.

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, I know. I wouldn't have posted it if it wasn't. And you bring it on yourself. You love the attention. Makes you feel all important-like.
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
so I never join any circle

[/ QUOTE ]
like Rudolph refused to play reindeer games.

[Zens_7s]

[The winkey is the universal sign for "I am kidding."]
I think the winkey is the universal sign for "I said something rude and now I want to semi-get-out-of-it."

[Here is a funny little bit of information... I was, for a while, the lead singer in a the doors cover-band.]
I must have been in the restroom during that portion of your Behind the Music special. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif Whinkey!

[I love the music, but I think that Morrison was a very bad poet. Simple.]
Yes, that was simple and interesting criticism, which would have added to the conversation. Thank you for helping to prove my point of constructive criticism vs. mocking.

[As a musician, I also play many of the songs created by TOOL and so I think that I have a unique understanding of the two styles (as a singer and guitarist).]Yes, as a classically trained pianist, I could not possibly have a unique understanding of the two styles. It is a good thing we have you to provide us with this information in such a polite, non-hostile manner.

[Once it was attacked (and I was attacked) I decided to respond in kind.]
You knew very well what you were doing RB, don't bother to play coy with me. You want us to argue with you, because it gets you off on some level. If not, you would have stated your reasons succinctly and constructively in the beginning.

[One man's idiot is another man's genius.]
Excellent, you will finally be able to create a following.

[I don't play by anyones terms and so I never join any circle]
I don't recall any invitations being extended toward you regarding said circle. But next time we get together to make a quilt, I will be sure to leave you out.

[I only attack when I think it is deserved, despite what you and others may insinuate.]
Yes, I suppose that in your little wonderland world you were attacked. You did nothing to provoke it, and you are the wronged party. In my world, you killed a perfectly good thread by your own inability to try tact. My world is pretty; we have rainbows and reindeer games and two different buffets where people can enjoy Jim's bad poetry and Tool's cynicism. Red Rover, Red Rover, send the crabby bitter guy over.

[psychofiend]

Good lawd...

[Razorback]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Think about it, man, and stop trying to "just joke" and backpedal out of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

"backpedal"? Was there anything said that would make me feel the need to back out of anything I said? Why do people like you and Robbo always think that you have said something so profound and intelligent that someone else needs to retreat out of the conversation or point?

Where did I threaten anyone?

All that happened was that I tried to make a funny and you took it as a serious thought. You really think that I would cut someone over an opinion? Or that I think that the doors is no better than Milli Vanilli? Remember, this /forums/images/icons/wink.gif means "joke."

My point was that I don't think the doors and TOOL are similar, or that TOOL is the doors of our times. You brought up some points that I somewhat countered. Why did I bring up the spelling? Because you made a comment about spelling so it fit right in.

Did I feel like debating the subject until we both reached forum nirvana? Nope. I guess I'm too old for long debates now. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

RB

[Razorback]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
You knew very well what you were doing RB, don't bother to play coy with me. You want us to argue with you, because it gets you off on some level

[/ QUOTE ]

That is not exactly true; I get off on seeing how upset you people make yourselves and how ugly you get with me for "forcing" that. I do play games and I am happy to admit it.

Oh bring out your venom Zen... I do get off on it. Since I am a little hermit here, living underground... afraid of the sun and real people. I hide behind this monitor, in fear of the world and throw around my tortured life at those on the Internet.

You all have figured me out! I can't get away from my reality even on the Internet... sniff. Where is the noose? Hurt me! I'm going to go cry into my extra large bowl of cocopuffs now.

You fecking lemming. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif WINKEY!

RB

[psychofiend]

http://www.razorsgateway.com/rb1.jpg=Sign of the fiend

[Razorback]

Mwuahahahaha!!!!

Anyway, I have to leave. The police are outside and are demanding that I come out with my hands up so they can get the bodies.

I will talk to you all later from my cell.

RB

[jjcourtright]

Going to jail for killing the zookeepers eh? I guess that's the only way to get the monkey love.

[psychofiend]

by fiend I meant he fiends for the confrentation since he said he gets off on it.

[Zens_7s]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Oh bring out your venom Zen... I do get off on it.

[/ QUOTE ] Awww...RB, there is no venom. /forums/images/icons/cool.gif I was just playing around. You know, sarcasm. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif I thought that you of all people would appreciate some sarcasm. /forums/images/icons/grin.gif

I guess I am not responsible for those who can't take a joke. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif Winkey! /forums/images/icons/smirk.gif Winkey! /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

[Robbo_the_Hood]

Fat people are so sad.

[Zens_7s]

[Said in distinctly southern accent...] Oh Robbo, you are mah hero.

[TomHarrington]

At least they have a reason to live, unlike short people.

[Robbo_the_Hood]

Sticking with the subject, anytime you need someone to put John Popper in his place feel free to call.

[Zens_7s]

Yeah - cause The Hook keeps bringing him back....

[Robbo_the_Hood]

you mean the hook on the harpoon?

[Razorback]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Awww...RB, there is no venom. I was just playing around. You know, sarcasm. I thought that you of all people would appreciate some sarcasm.

I guess I am not responsible for those who can't take a joke. Winkey! Winkey!

[/ QUOTE ]

There goes the perception thing again... out the window.

RB

[Razorback]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Fat people are so sad.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, but sad people are not always fat. Makes you wonder...

RB

[Zens_7s]

It is nice to see you in your proper place; hanging above my mantle.

[Razorback]

/forums/images/icons/grin.gif

At least you are keeping things funny.

RB

[Robbo_the_Hood]

It's creepy how his eyes seem to follow you around the room.

[Denyse]

So then what you're saying is that I'm sad AND I have no reason to live?

[TomHarrington]

No, not at all. It was Randy Newman, he said it. But where is he now, I ask you? Yeah, nobody else knows either. So you do have a reason to live, if only to put Randy Newman in his place. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

[Razorback]

I love short people! Well women... I hate short men. Yuck! Short men are the Milli Vanilli of humanity!

RB

[Denyse]

All those Napoleons, no countries left to conquer...

Wait...

On second thought... /forums/images/icons/smirk.gif

[psychofiend]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
All those Napoleons, no countries left to conquer...

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think France can even conquer itself.

[DangerSeeker]

I'm still waiting for the report that France was a Saddam sympathizer, and were actually hiding the WMD's for them. Of course, with the anti-French sentiment, it would definitely go over well if we invaded them. Heck fire bomb the place. All they got is art and stuff, right? This war aint about oil paints!

Oh, and fat people can lose weight, in theory. Short people, on the other hand, cannot work out and diet to become taller. None of this affects my opinion of either group.

[karmattack]

I'm French.



[censored] France!

[psychofiend]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I'm French.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry... cause that really sucks for you.

[karmattack]

Yeah, I shower and shower and shower and it just doesn't come off.

[Razorback]

That's true about short people... being short I know. I gain and lose wait all the time but I never gain height. That sucks!

RB

[Robbo_the_Hood]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I'm French.

[/ QUOTE ]
It's out to say 'French' now a days. You're Freedom.