HD DVD or Blue Ray?

[JK]

Fire up the BetaMax!

Which one do you think will win out in the new format wars?

[JK]

Maybe if I had put this in the wrong forum, someone would've vote on the goddamn thing...

[phit_demon]

I'm gonna say HD DVD simply because Sony have failed every time (that I can think of) they try to corner this market: Beta, Mini-Disc, UMD etc., although I'm in no rush to invest in either just yet.

[Antonio_Bay]

Someone told me - true or not - that 80% + of film studios have already given their support to the blue ray technology, and with the same technology utilised in the Playstation 3, these two factors must give it a large advantage over HD DVD?

[Razorback]

I think that HD could win due to the higher cost of BR and the lack of wide distribution of the PS3. However, I think a more realistic outcome is that both fail and that On-Demand and massive storage units win. That will deliver high def to your home that you will just download to own.

[DarthMaulRat]

The fight between these two formats just got ridiculous, leaving me interested in neither. Since the players are new, they all cost around $600 to $1300, which is way too much to invest in a format that has the potential of failing. The fact that some studios only support one format is pretty discouraging too. I liked Blu-ray because of the supposed ability to have 5 layers which would produce 100GB discs, but since Sony couldn't reach an agreement with the HD-DVD forum, I hope they pay for their greediness.

[BizarroPunisher]

I'll say HD-DVD just because I love my 360.:D

[FanGirl]

Here's my thoughts. Both are going to be gone soon enough. There is an adapter that will convert your regular DVDs into HD with out actually distorting the picture. Between the old DVDs for those who need to physicall own movies (such as myself) and the downloads, dropping a wad of cash on either of these formats are going to be a wast of time. Beta was the better of the two, but VHS was for the common man. The common man is not going to be getting HD tvs anytime soon and by the time they do there will be no need for these formats.

[Razorback]

Here's my thoughts. Both are going to be gone soon enough. There is an adapter that will convert your regular DVDs into HD with out actually distorting the picture. Between the old DVDs for those who need to physicall own movies (such as myself) and the downloads, dropping a wad of cash on either of these formats are going to be a wast of time. Beta was the better of the two, but VHS was for the common man. The common man is not going to be getting HD tvs anytime soon and by the time they do there will be no need for these formats.

Which is why I think high def is going right to the massive storage model. No HD-DVD or BluRay... cheap and gigantic hard drives that allow people to download all video products in high-def (whether they want it in HD or not) and save them on their storage device (as I mentioned earlier).

[Dave]

But there will always be those people who want to have an actual item to hold and shelve, so i think some sort of disk will always be around.

[Sheriff]

I think that all of the high-def stuff right now is for the people with deep pockets. But in the long term I vote Blue-ray simply for the capability, if I am going to upgrade my home entertainment system and computer, I would rather something with a longer life cycle. This is another reason that I like the PS3, they have stated that they want an 5-10 year product cycle. The difference between PS/PS2/PS3 was 5 and 6 years respectively, so it sounds reasonable.

The jump from CD (737 MB) to DVD (4.7 GB) was 6.4x, now you want me to pay for half that increase to HD-DVD (3.2x jump)? Nah, I will take the 5.3x increase to Blue-ray. This will allow me a couple more years before I have to do another full upgrade.

I don't believe the hype about the higher cost, the production cost between the two are pennies at best, especailly when you factor the higher GB capacity for Blue-ray. With volume increase they would eventually be at a similar cost.

With DVD, the company with more backers won the contest. Following that logic Blue-ray wins.

I agree with Dave that economically humans like to be able to hold on to something. Also I think that the Tivo/DVR market will be huge in the future, but historically it is a 'pay to play' or subscription based service. If I want to backup data or duplicate media, it needs to be on non-volital removable media. Current flash memory does not have good archival lifetime, hard drives are difficult to move. So removable optical media is going to continue to be in our future.

In either case, I think it will be a year or so before a winner is clear.

[Captain Spaulding]

I think that HD could win due to the higher cost of BR and the lack of wide distribution of the PS3.

I agree with this. Blu-Ray is a bit more expensive. HD all the way

[Sheriff]

I haven't purchased either yet, and it looks like the battle is not going anywhere.

Interesting developments (http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-0701120121jan12,0,1246030.story?coll=chi-business-hed) and a big dun-dun-dunnnnn (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070112-8602.html).

I am interested in the fact that Sanyo is looking to become a supplier for blue laser production and claims laser power enough to support 6x write speeds for either format.

[acid_soda]

Fire up the BetaMax!

Which one do you think will win out in the new format wars?

http://www.sip.be/hardware/floppy-schijf-5-inch-kl.jpg

[Omaru]

Neither I hope, I want my box sets and dvd collections to still mean something.

[Robbo_the_Hood]

Traditionally, the formats change because of one key factor...storage space. In music, vinyl platters beat out cylinders because they were easier to store, platters gave way to cassettes, cassettes gave way to CDs and CDs are losing out to MP3s all because they saved space.

I think both the Hi-Def and blue ray, for quite some time are going to be like Laser Disc and SACD players. Superior technology for the time, but they were too expensive for the mainstream, and didn't save space.

But that's just my two cents.

[DarthMaulRat]

Well, I think there are a lot of HD-TVs out there now, there's a lot of people I know who have these big ol 60-70" screens, people who I never expected to buy such a thing. They're becoming the ultimate toy for baby-boomers, methinks. And now that getting an HD signal isn't a complete pain anymore, I think its very valid that movies are being offered in HD.

Blu-ray and HD-DVD are a different laser, and despite the extra horsepower needed to process HD video, I don't think they're a revolutionary step hardware-wise. I have a feeling it shouldn't be too long before the tech becomes affordable. I saw that there are hybrid players coming out, priced around 1500, which isn't really a huge leap over current player prices.

Anyways, I forget what point I was trying to make, I really just wanted to talk about the 5 layer bluray discs that have finally been finalized and are ready for commercial use. 100GB discs sound pretty kickass. In standard def, you could fit close to 4 full seasons (88 episodes!) of a tv show on one disc.

[av8or]

I haven't purchased either yet, and it looks like the battle is not going anywhere.

Interesting developments (http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-0701120121jan12,0,1246030.story?coll=chi-business-hed) and a big dun-dun-dunnnnn (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070112-8602.html).

I am interested in the fact that Sanyo is looking to become a supplier for blue laser production and claims laser power enough to support 6x write speeds for either format.

i've been seeing around other forums (avs and the like) that those articles and statements by the porn guy are possibly disingenuous, there is porn in japan on blu-ray, and the scuttlebut is that there just isn't production capacity available to add their orders, the lines are all spoken for

[JK]

Just saw that Warner Bros will no longer support the HD DVD format after May of this year...

That leaves only Dreamworks and Universal suporting HD DVD.

Guess I'll have to get a PS3 after all... :mad: ;)

[phit_demon]

That's a damn shame. Ever since I heard that HD-DVDs were region free I have been sold on the format.
The dream is dead or dying now though. :(

[Czaple]

Just saw that Warner Bros will no longer support the HD DVD format after May of this year...

That leaves only Dreamworks and Universal supporting HD DVD.

Guess I'll have to get a PS3 after all... :mad: ;)

Yah, with Disney, Fox and Warner Bros all going exclusive to Blu-ray, that is a pretty big support. Spider-Man, Super Bad, The Simpsons Movie, and the Pirates of the Caribbean movies were all huge Box office pulls and are all Blu-ray exclusives. Really, looking through the HD-DVD catalog on Amazon, there aren't really many exclusives to HD that I'd buy (or feel the need to re-buy in a HD format). They just don't have a very strong catalog.

[Razorback]

HD-DVD = betamax.

Oh, how the world turns.

[Sheriff]

As much as I appreciate the economics of going to Blu-ray for the consumer, I am pretty sure that RB is right in the fact that streaming video with DVR's and OnDemand are really outgrowing HD-DVD or Blu-ray in the states. I think that the format war helped this quite a bit. I don't think that the Blu-ray will be the cash cow Sony hoped for even if HD-DVD died today.

In the long run I think that this leaves a big window to whatever the next removable storage format to comes out. I think people will start to get frustrated when their equipment crashes (hard drive or otherwise) and they lose all of their content (it has already happened to me twice with DVR's) and the fact that it is not easily transferable or portable right now, even to different rooms in the same house.

The demand is there for HD content, I just think that everyone is putting the money into upgrading their TV's right now.

[Czaple]

As much as I appreciate the economics of going to Blu-ray for the consumer, I am pretty sure that RB is right in the fact that streaming video with DVR's and OnDemand are really outgrowing HD-DVD or Blu-ray in the states. I think that the format war helped this quite a bit. I don't think that the Blu-ray will be the cash cow Sony hoped for even if HD-DVD died today.

How about UMD? :D There was one time talk of putting movies on a solid state devices like a miniature jump drive, and actually they have the technology to do it now. The problem is once media starts getting too small you run into problems like kids swallowing them, using them for legos, dropping them in the toilet and if you leave one on the floor it gets vacuumed up.

A disc format is nice because it is compact, and more or less large enough not to get misplaced. As it stands right now, even if I had a terabyte worth of storage space (which consumers still don't have access to in a single HDD), I still wouldn't have enough storage space to house all of my movies in an uncompressed SD format. I would at least need 4 terabytes of space, not including my Blu-ray discs.

The alternative would be pay-per-view with streaming movies, and I'd imagine me along with a bunch of other people would refuse to pay every time they want to watch their favorite movie. The only thing this will really mean is the evolution of the rental business. People still want to own movies.

Then, there are the crashes you mentioned. Wouldn't it be a bitch to lose your whole DVD collection when your HDD goes (and it will) out? On the other hand, a disc is 'crash resistant'. Your player can break, but you don't lose your movie. Discs offer a sense of security that you don't have with hard drives. Besides, most people don't like to put all their eggs in one basket. I even get concerned having all my information backed up on one drive. I've had way too many hard disks crash on me to trust them with anything of particular value.

[Razorback]

Massive storage and electronic distribution of HD content will succeed when all of the purchased content is tied to your account and not your storage device. That way, you can move from device to device and simply download the content again and not have to pay for it twice. Since it will be tied to an account, you can only watch that content on one device at a time, since the account will phone home to the service provider and inform it of an active viewing.

Having said that, I don't think this model will work until people can also burn their content onto media for backup, in case the service provided goes out of business. So, in the end, physical media will always be something the consumer desires. I think BR will succeed for many years on that alone.

[Sheriff]

How about UMD? :D There was one time talk of putting movies on a solid state devices like a miniature jump drive, and actually they have the technology to do it now. The problem is...

Not that I'm an expert, but usual advances in the storage industry either offer a benefit in cost, capacity, form factor, or reliability. Most peoples views are the 'smaller the better' with similar capacity media. I think the biggest problem for the future of magnetic hard drives and flash drives is that typical lifetimes are ~5 years no matter what advances they get in capacity or cost (and it generally works against the lifetime). I think UMD didn't offer enough of a benefit in any of the above 4 categories for people to switch (or even notice).

Massive storage and electronic distribution of HD content will succeed when all of the purchased content is tied to your account and not your storage device. That way, you can move from device to device and simply download the content again and not have to pay for it twice.

Amen to that, I think I own Led Zeppelin 4 in 4 different formats, I would love for any improvement in quality to be upgraded with whatever hosting provider I used.

With that type of model, people would have to be assured that the transfer of information was always available and near instantaneous. If that was available, you could sign me up right now...

[Razorback]

Amen to that, I think I own Led Zeppelin 4 in 4 different formats, I would love for any improvement in quality to be upgraded with whatever hosting provider I used.

With that type of model, people would have to be assured that the transfer of information was always available and near instantaneous. If that was available, you could sign me up right now...

Mind you, this is MY model. :) I don't think the industry is going to go down this route.... at least not initially.

[Czaple]

I think the biggest problem for the future of magnetic hard drives and flash drives is that typical lifetimes are ~5 years no matter what advances they get in capacity or cost (and it generally works against the lifetime).

5 years is pretty much the shelf life of a burned CD as well. Not good for archiving movies or music, so if anyone is doing that... You really should be using magnetic tapes for backups, they're the most reliable for backing up/archiving.

Amen to that, I think I own Led Zeppelin 4 in 4 different formats, I would love for any improvement in quality to be upgraded with whatever hosting provider I used.

With that type of model, people would have to be assured that the transfer of information was always available and near instantaneous. If that was available, you could sign me up right now...

The thing most people don't take into account with this type of service, is the costs associated with maintaining it. With the type of unlimited access you're talking about, in the long run the provider is going to lose money by selling you a movie. One of three things need to happen to counterbalance service/maintenance costs:

1.) Number of downloads are limited (like with iTunes)
2.) You pay a monthly/yearly service fee that goes toward server maintenance
3.) You pay-per-view

Also, if your talking near-instantaneous access, you're pretty much assuming that fiber optics is going to the standard in homes. Even with cable, downloading/streaming a 20-40 gigabyte uncompressed HD movie is still going to take awhile.

[By-tor]

Gigabyte, it's a funny word. Yeah, I got no clue what you guys are talking about.

[Czaple]

Yeah, I got no clue what you guys are talking about.

Neither do I, I'm just pasting together sentences I found on CNET and MSNBC.

[By-tor]

Neither do I, I'm just pasting together sentences I found on CNET and MSNBC.Huzzah!!!

[Razorback]

The thing most people don't take into account with this type of service, is the costs associated with maintaining it. With the type of unlimited access you're talking about, in the long run the provider is going to lose money by selling you a movie. One of three things need to happen to counterbalance service/maintenance costs:

1.) Number of downloads are limited (like with iTunes)
2.) You pay a month/yearly service fee that goes toward server maintenance
3.) You pay-per-view

This is exactly why large scale digital distribution of HD content is many years away. First, there needs to be widespread broadband available and adoption of new storage device schemes by consumers. DVR, Tivo, digital cable, and the Xbox 360 are all paving the way toward this but they are all still just Pay-Per-View schemes. The storage devices are nowhere near what consumers need in the long run.

First of all, BR has around 50 gigs of storage per disc. That will actually go up to 100 gigs very soon (the technology is already available). Most of the consumer based storage device products can hold the information of ONE BR disc. Sure, most current BR releases are not utilizing the full capacity of the media but eventually they will and then what? Will consumers accept less content for more cost and less freedom?

If you think about this in terms of marketability, there is no easy solution. Consumers like the DVD format. It is familiar to them. They may very well attempt to enjoy HD movies (or DVD movies) via download, but they will discover early problems due to space and abandon it. People like new stuff that fits into a predictable model. Buying discs is familiar to the general public and I am confident that model will survive for at least the next decade.

[Czaple]

This is exactly why large scale digital distribution of HD content is many years away. First, there needs to be widespread broadband available and adoption of new storage device schemes by consumers. DVR, Tivo, digital cable, and the Xbox 360 are all paving the way toward this but they are all still just Pay-Per-View schemes. The storage devices are nowhere near what consumers need in the long run.

I'll be interested to see what Home on the PS3 adds to this. Supposedly, you'll be able to go to the virtual PS store, rent virtual movies, then invite your virtual friends over to your virtual house to watch the movies that are streamed onto your virtual TV. Talking about bandwidth requirements...

But yah, I don't doubt somewhere down the line downloadable content will eventually find a place over physical media, but I'm thinking this is a long enough time down the line (at a minimum the time we saw VHS transition to DVD) that I don't mind investing some money in Blu-ray/HD movies.

[Razorback]

I'll be interested to see what Home on the PS3 adds to this. Supposedly, you'll be able to go to the virtual PS store, rent virtual movies, then invite your virtual friends over to your virtual house to watch the movie that is streamed onto your virtual TV. Talking about bandwidth requirements...

But yah, I don't doubt somewhere down the line downloadable content will eventually find a place over physical media, but I'm thinking this is a long enough time down the line (at a minimum the time we saw VHS transition to DVD) that I don't mind investing some money in Blu-ray/HD movies.

Not to mention that only parts of Asia and the US even have unlimited broadband downloads. The rest of the world pays per usage. So, it will not take off for a while. Also, the US takes between 5 and 10 years to adopt new tech. That means HD video will take off in 2 to 6 years. So, we are probably a decade away from large scale adoption of anything else.

[jstevoj123]

Its allready all over for HD DVD, Blueray players and discs are allready outselling HD about 6 to 1 and with some of the biggest companies like Paramount and Warner backing only Blueray that pretty much means HD is dead, plus there is more space on a Blueray disc.

[phit_demon]

Someone's working for Sony...

[JK]

Its allready all over for HD DVD, Blueray players and discs are allready outselling HD about 6 to 1 and with some of the biggest companies like Paramount and Warner backing only Blueray that pretty much means HD is dead, plus there is more space on a Blueray disc.

Wow, I never read that before. Thanks for the update. I really appreciate it.

[Sheriff]

It looks like Best Buy (http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSWNAS040320080211?feedType=RSS&feedName=technologyNews) and NetFlix are siding with Blu-ray as well.


5 years is pretty much the shelf life of a burned CD as well. Not good for archiving movies or music, so if anyone is doing that... You really should be using magnetic tapes for backups, they're the most reliable for backing up/archiving.

CD's and DVD's are really hit and miss, if you avoid filling the disk (avoiding the outer couple mm of the diameter) then you should expect 5-15 years of archival unless the disk is really cheap.

If you purchase archival grade DVD's (usually made with a gold reflective layer) available on the internet, burn data at moderate speeds, and store them properly, you should be able to expect 20-30 year lifetimes at a minimum.

If you think about this in terms of marketability, there is no easy solution. Consumers like the DVD format. It is familiar to them. They may very well attempt to enjoy HD movies (or DVD movies) via download, but they will discover early problems due to space and abandon it. People like new stuff that fits into a predictable model. Buying discs is familiar to the general public and I am confident that model will survive for at least the next decade.

I agree, I don't think people are going to quickly abandon the 'touch and feel' aspect of paying for something and having a physical representation of the purchased content.

I also think that transportation of content (either while the individual is traveling or taking content to another venue to watch it) can be difficult in the case of streaming data. I am thinking of how Blackberry blackouts make front page news, can you imagine how it would be if even 50% of the population was dependent on such a service, even if it was just for entertainment?

[karmattack]

Baaaaaahahahaha!

You already mentioned that Netflix went Blu. Did you guys see that Walmart is phasing HD off their shelves? The irony here is that Toshiba know they're fucked and they're going to slash the hell out of their prices. For people who don't know the war is over and who are trying to upgrade their entertainment center, the HD-player's price is going to look awesome. Isn't that the biggest contributing factor to DVD apathy? Cost? I wonder if a huge spike in HD sales will keep Toshiba swimming and turning the proverbial aircraft carrier. Blu-Ray still has to come out with a profile 2.0 player, so their prices aren't going anywhere.

[RobinHoodDaffy]

O.k. so I started the thread in the wrong damn forum. Sue me. But the war is apperently finished. See post in Where the Wild things are area.

[Threadkiller]

But the war is apperently finished.

I just now voted for Blu Ray.

[JK]

I should have voted for Stone Cold...

[karmattack]

Official Toshiba press release:

TOKYO--Toshiba Corporation today announced that it has undertaken a thorough review of its overall strategy for HD DVD and has decided it will no longer develop, manufacture and market HD DVD players and recorders. This decision has been made following recent major changes in the market. Toshiba will continue, however, to provide full product support and after-sales service for all owners of Toshiba HD DVD products.

HD DVD was developed to offer consumers access at an affordable price to high-quality, high definition content and prepare them for the digital convergence of tomorrow where the fusion of consumer electronics and IT will continue to progress.

"We carefully assessed the long-term impact of continuing the so-called 'next-generation format war' and concluded that a swift decision will best help the market develop," said Atsutoshi Nishida, President and CEO of Toshiba Corporation. "While we are disappointed for the company and more importantly, for the consumer, the real mass market opportunity for high definition content remains untapped and Toshiba is both able and determined to use our talent, technology and intellectual property to make digital convergence a reality."

Toshiba will continue to lead innovation, in a wide range of technologies that will drive mass market access to high definition content. These include high capacity NAND flash memory, small form factor hard disk drives, next generation CPUs, visual processing, and wireless and encryption technologies. The company expects to make forthcoming announcements around strategic progress in these convergence technologies.

Toshiba will begin to reduce shipments of HD DVD players and recorders to retail channels, aiming for cessation of these businesses by the end of March 2008. Toshiba also plans to end volume production of HD DVD disk drives for such applications as PCs and games in the same timeframe, yet will continue to make efforts to meet customer requirements. The company will continue to assess the position of notebook PCs with integrated HD DVD drives within the overall PC business relative to future market demand.

This decision will not impact on Toshiba's commitment to standard DVD, and the company will continue to market conventional DVD players and recorders. Toshiba intends to continue to contribute to the development of the DVD industry, as a member of the DVD Forum, an international organization with some 200 member companies, committed to the discussion and defining of optimum optical disc formats for the consumer and the related industries.

Toshiba also intends to maintain collaborative relations with the companies who joined with Toshiba in working to build up the HD DVD market, including Universal Studios, Paramount Pictures, and DreamWorks Animation and major Japanese and European content providers on the entertainment side, as well as leaders in the IT industry, including Microsoft, Intel, and HP. Toshiba will study possible collaboration with these companies for future business opportunities, utilizing the many assets generated through the development of HD DVD.

[By-tor]

http://www.carlson316wrestling.net/stonecoldtribute/bang316.jpg
WHAT?!!!


The voters have spoken.

[ZBarclay]

http://www.roadratroberts1.bravepages.com/images/STONE%20COLD%201.jpg

WHAT?!

[paradave911]

I really hope that HD wins the war, but I just read yesterday that... toshiba I think it was, is putting the "kibosh" on their HD stuff. So it is looking like HD is falling behind in the race. I have an HD player for my xbox 360, which was not all that expensive, but it looks like im gonna have to get a blue ray player soon. I will wait until the war is won before I invest in any other technology, and I think that is part of the major problem right now. no one will invest yet until they see which is gonna be around for a while.

I am one of the few people here who probably remembers the whole " beta vs VCR" wars of the 80's. alot of people got burned on that one.

But, hey, even if Blu-ray wins, it will give me a great excuse to pick up a playstation 3!!!!!

D

[paradave911]

Yup, Guess it was toshiba..... man what a bummer.

D

Official Toshiba press release:

TOKYO--Toshiba Corporation today announced that it has undertaken a thorough review of its overall strategy for HD DVD and has decided it will no longer develop, manufacture and market HD DVD players and recorders. This decision has been made following recent major changes in the market. Toshiba will continue, however, to provide full product support and after-sales service for all owners of Toshiba HD DVD products.

HD DVD was developed to offer consumers access at an affordable price to high-quality, high definition content and prepare them for the digital convergence of tomorrow where the fusion of consumer electronics and IT will continue to progress.

"We carefully assessed the long-term impact of continuing the so-called 'next-generation format war' and concluded that a swift decision will best help the market develop," said Atsutoshi Nishida, President and CEO of Toshiba Corporation. "While we are disappointed for the company and more importantly, for the consumer, the real mass market opportunity for high definition content remains untapped and Toshiba is both able and determined to use our talent, technology and intellectual property to make digital convergence a reality."

Toshiba will continue to lead innovation, in a wide range of technologies that will drive mass market access to high definition content. These include high capacity NAND flash memory, small form factor hard disk drives, next generation CPUs, visual processing, and wireless and encryption technologies. The company expects to make forthcoming announcements around strategic progress in these convergence technologies.

Toshiba will begin to reduce shipments of HD DVD players and recorders to retail channels, aiming for cessation of these businesses by the end of March 2008. Toshiba also plans to end volume production of HD DVD disk drives for such applications as PCs and games in the same timeframe, yet will continue to make efforts to meet customer requirements. The company will continue to assess the position of notebook PCs with integrated HD DVD drives within the overall PC business relative to future market demand.

This decision will not impact on Toshiba's commitment to standard DVD, and the company will continue to market conventional DVD players and recorders. Toshiba intends to continue to contribute to the development of the DVD industry, as a member of the DVD Forum, an international organization with some 200 member companies, committed to the discussion and defining of optimum optical disc formats for the consumer and the related industries.

Toshiba also intends to maintain collaborative relations with the companies who joined with Toshiba in working to build up the HD DVD market, including Universal Studios, Paramount Pictures, and DreamWorks Animation and major Japanese and European content providers on the entertainment side, as well as leaders in the IT industry, including Microsoft, Intel, and HP. Toshiba will study possible collaboration with these companies for future business opportunities, utilizing the many assets generated through the development of HD DVD.

[Razorback]

Welcome to two days ago.

[ratm1966]

Welcome to two days ago.
I was going to post something also, but then I read why Aaron deleted his message and thought to myself, "Self, I guess maybe one message pointing out that his info was old was enough." :D

[Sheriff]

Pretty cool Q'n'A (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2008/02/19/DI2008021901713.html) on the fallout from the HD-DVD camp.

Microsoft helped prolong the format war to get ahead in streaming digital content? Never heard that one before...

[ratm1966]

Microsoft has now announced they will stop producing the HD-DVD add-on for the 360.

http://gizmodo.com/360054/microsoft-xbox-360-hd-dvd-player-officially-discontinued