You can keep your MTV.

[Robbo_the_Hood]

From the Fantastic Four thread:
I thought that we were the MTV generation as it started right when we got to TV watching age? Or is it a shifting thing whereas it will always be the moniker of the generation that is currently watching MTV?That's a tough call and a discussion worthy of it's own thread. So, I'll try to answer it here, before I've had enough coffee, and right before I have to be at work.

In our day, MTV played music videos, three-minute b-movies that intertwined the songs lyrics in most cases. While it's all well and good, sometime in the first six years of my life, I honestly thought the song "Don't Come Around Here No More," was about Alice in Wonderland. It wasn't until I heard the songs sans image that I knew that it really was a song about one of my exgirlfriends. These early videos were crudely shot, campy, novelties that should have died out in three to five years.

Somewhere along the way, in a stunning move of intelligence, foresight, and greed, someone realized that there was money to be made in this industry, and videos became big budget, well produced, occasionally inventive, dramatic operas. They started listing the videos' directors in the credits. This actually is the most influential point in our current movie trends. Because of the constraints of telling a story in only three minutes in most cases, directors had to advance the story in a series of choppy quick edits. Somehow, this became a style of directing films. Instead of establishing and sustaining a shot, the camera jumps and cuts to nine hundred different things, either causing audiences to have siezures en masse, or showing them that subtlety no longer matters. Most proficient in the MTV/quick edit style of directing a feature lenght film is Michael Bay. His movies look like the studio head said, "Make it look like a music video."

MTV has also added more shows to their schedule. While "House of Style" and "Remote Control" were huge changes for MTV and long since gone, MTV has added so much programming that if they do show a music video, they show fifteen seconds of it. The music portion of MTV is only set as a backdrop for their shows like "Real World" or bumped off of the main network to MTV2, X, Y, Piddy-iddy channel, etc. With the shortening of the music, and less and less music playing, MTV has shortened the attention span of an entire generation; one that cannot sit through a sustained shot because nothing is happening, nor can they listen to songs that are longer than three minutes and thirty seconds.

The question there in lies, which generation belongs to the MTV generation, a question that is similar to asking what years begin and end Generation X (I've heard 1960-1980, but 1965-1975 most often. I also figure because I wanted to have that generation moniker in the eight grade, that I shouldn't be allowed to be in the labeled generation. Such as it is, I'm stuck between Gen X and Y, or Mellenials). MTV started in 1981 with a prescient song about music being destroyed when visuals were added to it. The song itself was released in 1979, before MTV even existed, however MTV didn't become a serious network until Michael Jackson's "Billie Jean" video. Then the short films "Thriller" and "Beat It" were released, propelling the album Thriller into the best selling record album of all time. Looking at the dates, the MTV generation starts in either 1981 or the Orwellian 1984, when it becomes a viable network.

I choose to subscribe to 1984 being the real launching of MTV, and therefore when the MTV generation was started. Mainly, because I remember music before listening to MTV myself. But 1984 was the year that MTV stopped being mere novelty and became flat out advertising. The videos were just commercials for music and after Jackson's success, everyone tried it to sell their albums. Some of the less aesthetically pleasing musical acts had to ungracefully bow out of the industry because they weren't TV pretty, something not necessary before 1984. Others used MTV as a vehicle to carve out their image. In a sense, it is when MTV decided their target demographic is of 14-year-old girls. They certainly haven't looked back.

Anyone born in/after 1984 cannot remember a time that there was music without visuals. They are also the first generation that is subject to constant advertising. Every direction their heads turn, the space on which their eyes focus is for sale, and most likely marketed towards them. Thus we have a generation of consumer whores, with short attention spans, that believe anything presented to them by a glowing screen. That's your MTV generation.

[Matthew]

Well Said.

[TLS]

Good thought, Robbo.

I heard recently that the M in MTV was changed to stand for Media and not Music. Not sure if it's true, if so, then it makes sense that it was changed.

[Robbo_the_Hood]

Well Said.Thank you. I'm only missing one thing; a picture of Psychofiend. He won't look at or post anything unless it has visuals, and I figure he's the poster child for the aforementioned generation.

[jjcourtright]

So what does that leave for us?

Are we the cable generation? A generation who can't seem to live without paying for television.

Are we the Simpsons generation? A generation defined by a cartoon family that doesn't age.

Maybe we're generation apathy? A generation who will always not care enough, no matter how good our life is.

I submit that we are the materialistic generation. Style over substance. We are our khakis. We are our cars. We define people by what they own, rather than who they are. I like to think that I'm above all that. I like to think that I'm superior to those sheep. But I'm not. I had to get a house that has a whole basement that mostly goes unused. I prejudge people based on their zipcode, on how bad their car looks. It might be nice to have a scapegoat. MTV, maybe our parents. But we just seem to be who we are. A generation that has had nothing worse than the Cold War to fear. Everything has always been plentiful, so we will take our share of the plenty and scoff at those who don't.

[Matt1]

I submit that we are the materialistic generation. Style over substance. We are our khakis. We are our cars. We define people by what they own, rather than who they are. I like to think that I'm above all that. I like to think that I'm superior to those sheep. But I'm not. I had to get a house that has a whole basement that mostly goes unused. I prejudge people based on their zipcode, on how bad their car looks. It might be nice to have a scapegoat. MTV, maybe our parents. But we just seem to be who we are. A generation that has had nothing worse than the Cold War to fear. Everything has always been plentiful, so we will take our share of the plenty and scoff at those who don't.
I think that may be a valid assessment, but I don't think it's something particularly unique to your generation. From the fifties on it seems Americans have been somewhat materialistic, and have used a person's possessions to judge their worth. Keeping Up With the Jones’ and all that jazz. Perhaps our level of comfort and complacency have increased compared to earlier generations, but I think consumerism has been pretty much a constant for a while now.

Robbo- I think your analysis is dead on. I've felt pretty out of step with the rest of my generation for some time now, and I think it's partly due to the fact that I didn't have cable until I was about 11 years old. I remember that when I finally did get it, and checked out MTV for the first time, that I wasn't all that impressed. Most of my peers couldn't get enough.

[Zens7s]

So what does that leave for us?
I submit that we are the materialistic generation. Style over substance. We are our khakis. We are our cars. We define people by what they own, rather than who they are. I like to think that I'm above all that. I like to think that I'm superior to those sheep. But I'm not. We have become Yuppies.

I hate to admit it, but I have become the very Yuppie that I used to despise. I have the brownstone in the "right" historical neighborhood, and talk about how the downtrodden should stay on that side of the highway. I attend a "event" once a month in which I will make some donation to a place I don't even care about, but I know I will make good business contacts while I am there. I have worthless discussions at bars with couches and no lighting about where to get the Rolex and the 5-series fixed. It's pathetic, and sad, and slightly unavoidable.

But what is a late twenties person to do? You have to assimilate to your surroundings. I can't go backward because I don't understand what it would be like to go back to 21 and have the apartment with 5 roommates and a couch with more DNA than a episode of Cold Case Files...nor would I want to. I am not a poet, artist, or a musician any longer, so being a bohemian free-sprit doesn't work. Living that lifestyle would be a career limiting move, because people only want to be around people they believe they understand. Granted, they do not know the first thing about me REALLY, but I allow them to define me by what they deem important.

If we look back, the GenX "lifestyle" that was so well protrayed in movies like Singles and Reality Bites doesn't fit anyone anymore. The generation in front of us has become Depserate Housewives and our generation is Sex in the City. It's like those execs you run into that talk about how they were hippies back in the day. Everything needs to change sometime.

[Robbo_the_Hood]

So what does that leave for us?

Are we the cable generation? A generation who can't seem to live without paying for television.

Are we the Simpsons generation? A generation defined by a cartoon family that doesn't age.

Maybe we're generation apathy? A generation who will always not care enough, no matter how good our life is.
You know, I don't really know, but this lady (http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?ItemID=15997) had some pretty good ideas that I liked in this and another essay I can't find right now.

[JK]

We have become Yuppies.


:mad: NEVER!:mad:
Never, never, never. I am young. I do work an urban area, and I am a professional, but I will fight that moniker until I am an old urban professional. I proudly fly the flannel. I'm not inflexible to change, but I'm not one to follow trends or to fall rank and file into a role that is expected of me.


Even though MTV was ever present in my life from 1982 until 1989, I don't consider myself to be a part of that generation. I've had die hard Gen-Xers (anyone born before 1969) tell me I'm not a part of their generation, but I am. I grew up listening to the hand-me-down 8 tracks, Jimmy Carter wussifying the Oval Office, and Ronny Ray-Gun taking the fight to those who would seek to destroy America.

Because I work in entertainment, I see a lot of these younger kids -the Gen Y or whatever the hell they call themselves now- coming into the workforce and I often wonder how in the hell they've even made it this far, what with the three minute attention spans et al. It's hard to explain a thirty minute process to someone who's eyes begin to drift away after a minute and a half and are completely glazed over after five. I see a lot of projects getting started, but never finished- if results are not instantly gratifying, it's not worth it. And I don't blame just MTV for creating this instant-breakfast generation. News networks and the entertainment video magazines do their best to condense a story that may take many hours of study to fully understand into a 30 second VO and a 15 second sound-bite. Ten minute commercial breaks filled with 30- and 15-second spots that bombard the viewer with anything and everything imaginable. A lot of people, especially the younger people I know, take this as gospel and don't make any effort to dig deeper. More often than not, I see them accept the who, the what, the where and the when, but discard the why as a waste of time. I see all of this as real and serious problem for society down the road.

[By-tor]

:mad: NEVER!:mad:
Never, never, never. ...
Great post! Ya just made a fellow Texan proud.

[psychofiend]

Only thing i can watch that's on any MTV or MTV2 is Wonder Showzen. I like VH1 though.

[JK]

Only thing i can watch that's on any MTV or MTV2 is Wonder Showzen. I like VH1 though.

I've blocked MTV from the VCR. MTV has sucked ass in every incarnation since late 1994. I briefly tuned in back in '97 but that was it. MTV2 showed some promise, but it quickly turned into a dumping ground for crap that didn't make on MTV. Then there was MTVX, which was cool for a while, but last time I tuned in, it was as if I had flashed back to '97... more crap. Who the fuck is running that network and why hasn't Viacom beat their asses?! Oh, that's right, Viacom is run by a bunch of geezers who trust that the youngsters running MTV know what the fuck they're doing...

Yeah, right.

YOUR NETWORK SUCKS!!!

I'll stand by my previous arguement. MTV has ruined a generation and that generation is now in turn ruining MTV.

[Robbo_the_Hood]

Only thing i can watch that's on any MTV or MTV2 is Wonder Showzen.Oh, you are the poster child for the MTV generation, as evidenced by your love of Courtney, and you're believe in Charles and Marilyn Manson.

I like VH1 though.You know they are owned and run by the same people? And the post wasn't a diatribe against MTV, just how MTV influenced a generation. My point is, you still need visuals to enjoy music, because you don't know if the band is cool or not unless you see what they look like.

[Zens7s]

:mad: NEVER!:mad:
Never, never, never. I am young. I do work an urban area, and I am a professional, but I will fight that moniker until I am an old urban professional. I proudly fly the flannel. I'm not inflexible to change, but I'm not one to follow trends or to fall rank and file into a role that is expected of me.

Because I work in entertainment,Yep, you work in entertainment. In that profession it is far more acceptable, and often incouraged, to live a "fly the flannel" lifestyle. I envy occupations that allow that freedom and encourage it.

My point is that, like it or not, there comes a time where each person determines whether they will accept having to change a part of themselves to fit where they want to go. Not the whole part...I am still in my personal time the same person I always was. The person I am with my friends is not the persona that I have elsewhere, and I am ok with that.

But had you asked me 5 years ago that I would be ok with it I would have said no. Is it worth it? Sure. I really don't care if the same people who see the Yuppie me know that I am the opposite outside of business obligations. I wouldn't want to be "friends" with those people anyway. But they don't know the difference, and I accept the bad that goes along with it.

There are times it really comes in handy that people I work with know NOTHING about me. :)

[JK]

"fly the flannel" lifestyle

Actually, I only wear the Docs anymore:)

After typing a rather long-winded account of a dinner party I had to attend last week, I realized I had no point. Other than I am who I am and people can deal with it however they choose.

[Zens7s]

Actually, I only wear the Docs anymore:)

After typing a rather long-winded account of a dinner party I had to attend last week, I realized I had no point. Other than I am who I am and people can deal with it however they choose.I love my Docs. I finally had to throw out my first pair from 1994 a few weeks back.

Here there isn't much use for me to wear them anymore. They were incredibly useful when spending 6 months a year in snow drifts. Now I try to wear shoes that are barely shoes at all. Too darn hot.

[JK]

Now I try to wear shoes that are barely shoes at all. Too darn hot.

I pick at my fiancee about her shoe fetish- that's the only way I can describe it. She has somewhere between 35 and 40 pairs and she only wears two or three of 'em. But on the other hand, I'm the same way with the Doc's- black ten eyes, black eight eyes, green ten eyes- I had a pair of bump toes with the Union Jack on 'em, a blue pair, a red pair...

[psychofiend]

Oh, you are the poster child for the MTV generation, as evidenced by your love of Courtney.
I really like D'arcy Wretzky much more, she's hotter and she's cooler.
http://www.my-mistake.net/infinitepics/darcy/darcy147.jpg

[TLS]

We have become Yuppies.
Noooooooooooooo!
Until the dreaded day comes where I trade in my jeans for a pair of khaki's or my plastic Batman watch for a Rolex.....
Them Yuppies and their $20's they use as $1's. I go to the dollar store because that's all I can afford. And their stupid flavored coffee's and the carmel/vanilla latte frappachinos whatchamacallit's. I don't even want to start on the Starbucks plague. I'd gladly watch South Park reruns before sitting infront of an episode of Sex in the City. They can keep their Subaru's and fancy pocket books and I'll keep my hello-kitty wallet and my Honda Civic (for as long as it keeps passing inspection).
Yep, until that dreaded day, which I pray should never come, I will not be a Yuppie. If such day should come, I will live in the beautiful world of denial,
and I will NEVER own a pocket-book dog.

[By-tor]

I really like D'arcy Wretzky much more, she's hotter and she's cooler.
http://www.my-mistake.net/infinitepics/darcy/darcy147.jpg
Hey psycho, D'arcy letting you know what she thinks of you with her left hand.:p

[BAMSS04]

A study on the "Generations" found that:

Born between 1981 and 1995, generation y members in America are more than 57 million strong. The y generation is the largest consumer group in the history of the U.S. Other names for gen y include Echo Boomers and the Millennium Generation.Consequently, the y generation represents the future market for most consumer brands. The study also found that pre-teens (ages 8-12) spend $19.1 billion annually, while teens (13-19) spend $94.7 billion annually and young adults (20-21) spend $61.2 billion. 87 percent of income for children under age 13 years is adult-supplied, compared to 37 percent of teens and 7 percent of young adults, with teens and young adults relying mostly on jobs for their income.
Born between 1965 and 1980, generation x members number 50 million in the U.S , comprising 17% of the population. Members of gen x spend $125 billion annually on consumer goods in the U.S. Generation x is characterized by a propensity for technology, skepticism to advertising claims, and attraction to personal style rather than designer price tags.

Members of generation x include a high percentage of entrepreneurs, as well as employees who easily transition from one employer to another. Since generation x members spend a lot of time in front of the computer and are comfortable with e-commerce, high impact internet marketing techniques can help compel gen x individuals to purchase online.

[ozchick]

I'm a Gen X-er? Huh. I never thought of myself as one. But there you go.

[Tydyed Bandit]

I hate all these 'generation' things. Hooray! I was JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE! I choose not to belong to any particular generation.

It's all just a bunch of labels, which also suck, because people only use them so they don't have to try hard to recognize differences in everyone they meet.

Oh, you wear black and have a chain? I don't like you. You, over there, you ahve a popped collar, I should talk to you and have your babies.

All BS.

[DangerSeeker]

Music video influence on media, combined with the ease of research that comes with the internet, has reduced the youth of today to a mindset of "Yeah, yeah, I get the idea" without concentration on the facts, the details, the effort. Their brains are built for quicker dump and reload of information, which is why people tend to be more likely to rollover from one job to the next after a steadily shrinking amount of time. Gone is the concept of the lifetime career employee.

Ours (being part of Gen X) is one of the most pop-culture infatuated generations in terms of modern and retro interest. We were raised first with Star Wars toys, but then there was the dawn of Masters of the Universe, G.I. Joe, Smurfs, Transformers, Thundercats, Strawberry Shortcake... anyone see the theme? These were toys that had cartoons, or vice versa. More importantly, these were toys and cartoons specifically designed to cross-promote each other. The kids would watch the cartoon, want new characters as they were introduced, then get completely immersed in the whole product.

It established in us very early the notion of "I enjoy this, so I must purchase related products to support it." It doesn't help that we were roughly the children of the first of the yuppies, who equated success with money, and money with status symbols. Any kid who had the GI Joe Aircraft carrier was immediately somewhat cool, no matter what sort of personality they had.

[Mighty Wingman]

You can keep your MTV.

Indeed you can , I feel so sorry for the rest of you. Here in Austin we have AMN (Austin Music Network) which not only plays videos but a wide range of eclectic artists and various styles. Local, national and international . Blues , Jazz, Funk, Rock, Pop, Metal, Punk, Ska, House, Electronica, Reggae, and even …* shudders * Country. You could watch all week and never see the same video twice. Back when MTV played videos they played the same ten songs on 24 hour loop, and then had the nerve at the end of the week to do a top ten countdown. Hey big surprise! When that same video that’s been airing every twenty-three minutes ALL WEEK LONG turns out to be #1. Who’d’ve guessed ?

Mind you , AMN is not a pay channel , you don’t even need cable to get it , it’s yours free ! Just for living here and owning a television.

As far as this Gen-X ,Gen-Y crap it’s all about one thing . Marketing demographics. It has nothing to with anything, anymore than what month you were born in determines your personality or destiny. It’s complete and total bullshit made-up by ad execs and further projected Mr. Coupland and his Doug-ites. But go ahead , I say, and accept the labels if you’re too pathetic and insipid to define yourself as an individual.

Anyone born in/after 1984 cannot remember a time that there was music without visuals.

The visuals were always there for me provided by my own imagination rather than some directors vision. While a number of videos matched or improved on my pre-existing visions. Most were a long way off from my interpretation. Most hated among these are the performance video where the artists are simply performing their song on stage to a raucous audience. Obviously the only motivation here is to sell concert tickets , rather than enlightening the audience as to the artists lyrical prowess. These videos always felt like a missed opportunity.

Thank you for input and a thought provoking post, Mr. Hood.

[psychofiend]

Hey psycho, D'arcy letting you know what she thinks of you with her left hand.:p
Yeah, that's possible... Christ, some people are stupid.

[Tydyed Bandit]

Do you think you have to tell him that (Christ, that is.) I mean he is God, and I doubt that he didn't see that people are stupid before you said that.