Ep I I I Discussion

[slizzelizzel]

I know that there's already the 367 days thread, but I wanted to make this thread for people to discuss what they thought about EP III in terms of the SW universe, both good and bad. Mainly, I wanted to keep problems about the movie out of the 37 days thread, so put 'em here if you've got em.

My list: (Both good and bad)
1. The scene where Vader screams "NOooooooooooo", IMO, is a scene I have seen parodied so many times that I don't think it belongs in any new movie. The main problem that I had with it, other than the cheesiness, was the fact that Vader, once in his suit, is emotionless, I don't think we should be able to know what's going on in his head. I would have much rather seen Palpatine tell him while he was still on the table, out of the suit while he was having his new arms and legs fitted and had him go into a rage, flailing about and crushing the droids, beating his arm into the table so hard that it broke it off of his bone, and dying emotionally while he was still a human, then be put into the suit. Not being able to see his eyes or face really removes the emotional element that it should have had.

2. The emporer's disfigurement. For a while, I was thinking that his gnarled face just looked shitty, not like the emporer at all, but when he put on the cloak, it was the good ol' emporer that we all gre up with. I think that McDiarmid did an excellent job in this movie, his charachter(s) were dead on.

3. The Death Star. Okay, we can figure that about 18-19 years go by in between ep III and IV, so why did it take so long to build, as it had just been completed in IV. The second Death Star was still under construction, but still, they got it operational within about 3 years. Really it's no biggie, but I'm a big fan of the extended universe, and the story that GL wrote for the DS in the prequels is not at all what happened in the books I've read. I was glad to see Tarkin, though, as he was a major player in the construction of the DS in the extended universe.

4. I think the best sequence in the entire movie was the Jedi Purge, though I do wish it had been more graphic. It was just really sad, especially the part about the younglings...

5. This part really ticked me off. There was no THX opener before the 20th century fox thing!! That to me is a VITAL part of Star Wars.

6. The opening scroll just didn't seem right...the language seemed odd, I don't know what it was about it, though...


I'll get back to you when I've had some sleep...and seen it again...

[Razorback]

************* SP O I L E R S **********************

The scene where Vader screams "NOooooooooooo", IMO, is a scene I have seen parodied so many times that I don't think it belongs in any new movie.

It is an homage to Frankenstein.

The main problem that I had with it, other than the cheesiness, was the fact that Vader, once in his suit, is emotionless

He is? Man, you need to watch the OT again. Also, this is the birth of Vader. This is the last moment of Anakin... when he hears that Padme has died it is over for him. That was his everything and it is gone (he thinks because of him). So his scream is it. Anakin leaves.

Not being able to see his eyes or face really removes the emotional element that it should have had.

Oh well, sucks for you I guess.

The Death Star. Okay, we can figure that about 18-19 years go by in between ep III and IV, so why did it take so long to build, as it had just been completed in IV.

Red tape? The first always takes longer to build? All we see is the outline of a shell. How long have they been building that? Three years? Since the end of Clones? Plus, Palpatine probably had to hide the construction from the Senate. So he was most likely stealing money here and there. Once the Empire comes about he still needs the Senators, at least until ANH when the Death Star is finally ready and he dissolves the Senate.

The second Death Star was still under construction, but still, they got it operational within about 3 years.

How do you know that they were not already working on a bigger version soon after they started the first? The second Death Star wasn't more than about half completed anyway. They made sure to make it weapon ready more than anything.

This part really ticked me off. There was no THX opener before the 20th century fox thing!! That to me is a VITAL part of Star Wars.

Take it up with your theatre.

The opening scroll just didn't seem right...the language seemed odd, I don't know what it was about it, though...

Riiiight. :rolleyes:

[slizzelizzel]

It is an homage to Frankenstein.


Maybe so, but it, IMO, was out of place.


He is? Man, you need to watch the OT again. Also, this is the birth of Vader. This is the last moment of Anakin... when he hears that Padme has died it is over for him. That was his everything and it is gone (he thinks because of him). So his scream is it. Anakin leaves.


I meant to say he SHOULD be emotionless when in the suit. I just don't think it worked as well as it could have if you could see him.

Oh well, sucks for you I guess.

Guess so.

Take it up with your theatre.

You mean yours did have the THX thing?? Man, that sucks. I feel gyped now... :(

Riiiight. :rolleyes:

I figured it out. There was nothing in all caps, as there are in ep IV, V, and VI. Things like DEATH STAR and REBELLION are in caps in the originals...just a personal thing though, I guess...



Don't get me wrong, I absolutely freiking loved the movie, more then ANH and ROTJ, but there were a few things that I just didn't like about it.

[Razorback]

You mean yours did?? Man, that sucks. I feel gyped now... :(

You don't realize that the THX thingy only appears in THX theaters?

I figured it out. There was nothing in all caps, as there are in ep IV, V, and VI. Things like DEATH STAR and REBELLION are in caps in the originals...just kinda weird...

Yeah... I never figured out why they did that to some and not to others.

[Ryall]

My primary question is...

--After fighting Obi-Wan to a stand-still all across this lava planet, why does Darth Vader then choose to suddenly lob himself at Obi-Wan like a big, meaty softball pitch, just begging to get his arm and legs cut off with a simple swing of the saber? Seemed a pretty anticlimactic end to the fight, and a pretty poor decision on his part. I'm sure RB will explain this as hubris on his part and that he learned the hard way that he wasn't quite as powerful as he thought, but it still seemed a bad idea. But Darth Stumpy catching fire was a nice touch, though.

I could also balk at Padme, after learning that her betrothed has killed Jedis and younglings and embraced the Dark Side of the Force and basically betrayed everything she knew about him, then saying, "Oh, Anakin, you've changed" and "I don't even KNOW you any more." But I won't. Even if I half-expected her to stomp her foot when she says this and then go text message her girlfriends about how nasty ol' Ani is being. I just expected a bit more than sitcom-like dialogue there, but I guess girls are the same all across the galaxies... and it's pretty futile to complain about the dialogue at this point--we all knew what to expect by now.

It's a good movie--best of the new trilogy but a semi-distant fourth overall--but certainly not without its flaws. It was completely held together by solid acting from Hayden and Ewan McGregor. Nice to see the solid actor Hayden showed he could be in Shattered Glass do his thing here, finally.

However, Natalie... just doesn't quite seem cut out for the green-screen acting.

Now to go sleep for a few minutes and try to get that Frankenstein stomp and "KHAAAAAAN"-like yell out of my head.

I will fully admit to getting chills when the Lucasfilm logo showed up onscreen at the beginning. Feels a little odd that a 28-year odyssey is now over and that feeling won't ever be had again.

[ILovePapaSmurf]

Well, I would comment on the film, but I will wait a couple hours to do so, so I can calm down with the sexiness that Ewan and Hayden brought to this movie. Almost made me jump out of my chair a couple of times. And I am sure you boys don't want to hear that.

Oh yeah, and besides the two sex pot stars, I loved this movie! I am going to ditch work and see it again! :)

[Razorback]

Seemed a pretty anticlimactic end to the fight, and a pretty poor decision on his part.

Overconfidence.

but it still seemed a bad idea.

Yup, it was a bad idea, by Anakin.

I could also balk at Padme, after learning that her betrothed has killed Jedis and younglings and embraced the Dark Side of the Force and basically betrayed everything she knew about him, then saying, "Oh, Anakin, you've changed" and "I don't even KNOW you any more."

I thought her delivery of those "bad" lines was what sold it. In fact, many times in this movie it was the right-on delivery of lines that sold them, not the actual lines.

Nice to see the solid actor Hayden showed he could be in Shattered Glass do his thing here, finally.

I think it was the first time that I have seen an angry Hayden... that kid can sure play nasty.

However, Natalie... just doesn't quite seem cut out for the green-screen acting.

I am 180 degrees on the other side. I could not disagree more. I actually found her performance to be as good as any, in her limited role.

[DarthMaulRat]

I think one of my biggest complaints is the giant lizard thing that Obi rides in the first third. It's a high concept for the special effects lords of ILM, but this time I think they were given to large a task. The crazy video game camera shots, the insane motion of the beast, it all looked too digital. The beast did look good in a few scenes, but in many it just looked either fake or out of place. Yes, I know there's no such thing as a crazy lizard beast and I can't judge how it should look blah blah blah. But the thing Anakin rode in Ep. II looked much more convincing, which is why I felt ILM didn't quite pull it off this time. Of course, every other effect in the movie was amazing, and of a higher quality than the other two films (except a few of the lava shots that looked as if they were shot on a different framerate). But anyway, this is just nitpicking in what was an otherwise greatly satisfying movie.

[BAMSS04]

Ok, so here are my thoughts.


The opening was amazing. I thought it was quite simply the best opening in ANY star wars movie. The fighting the great arial moves, all of it. R2D2 was just as fun as ever.

The Making of a Sith. Lets just say that other than his voice, which was a little weird, it was great. I thought Hayden did great. Ewan was by far the best actor on that screen. He was right on.

The fights. OH MY GOD!!!! I never wanted them to end.

The End. Very moving.


So, other than a few small things I thought the movie was amazing. I could not have been more pleased.

[Threadkiller]

Darth Stumpy Still laughing at that one. For the most part I agree with Ryall. I could nit pick some other stuff about how Tatooine seemed like a set or something but I could do that with any movie and I've learned not to hold these to a higher standard.

It was fun to watch. I had a great time.

It probably should have been rated 'R'. I feel bad for the parents who had to deal with their kids' nightmares as they struggled with the idea of the hero of the last few episodes killing a bunch of innocents and then being dismembered and burned alive. That's what they get for taking those younger than 13 though.

On a side note, one of the people I went with had never seen any of the other five episodes. She was totally lost and had no idea what was going on from the get go. Oh well.

[Mighty Wingman]

I enjoyed the early subtle seduction of the dark side, and the ironic futuility of it all. Anankin turns to the dark side to to save Padme, and his turning, is the cause of his premonitions coming true.
The action was fun and nearly non-stop, huge improvement in pacing from the last two. Though I was hoping for more from Grievous after the CW cartoons. And Maces death vexes me. Did he really have Sidious or was Sidious playing possum to get Ani to turn???
"Execute directive #66 ." Was probably the most dramatic sequence ever in a SW film. You already know what's going to happen but it still bothers you.
Cheesy lines and hammy delivery aside, this is by far the best of the new trilogy, but better than Empire ? I don't think so.
I still think what most separates the new trilogy from the old, amounts to the number of qoutable lines.

And just curious... Did anyone else sense a little social commentary based on current political events ?

[BAMSS04]

. And Maces death vexes me. Did he really have Sidious or was Sidious playing possum to get Ani to turn???

And just curious... Did anyone else sense a little social commentary based on current political events ?

No, but I was not looking for it.


As far as Mace goes, Mace beat his ass. Bad. I mean real bad. With a light saber anyway. He might have been playing a little game at the end, but Mace could have killed him. Just like Yoda would have kicked Palpatines' ass if it were one on one.

I was so impressed with Ewan, though. Wow, that guy ruled.

[BAMSS04]

I did want to say this though.

I went last night with a room full of the BIGGEST Star Wars Geeks in the city. I would not have it any other way. I stood in line for 4 hours talking to people I have never met before, I was given everything from free candy, cokes, Red Bull, and met some nice people. Someone asked me today why I would stand in line for four hours to see a movie, and well unless you do it, I could never tell you. Last night was the best movie experiance I have ever had. I just wanted to point that out. (Last year it Rained, so the theatre had no lines, and Episode 1, I saw in a brand new theatre, so it was not too full.)

Also, when we go into the theatre they were fun before the movie, and everyone was having so much fun watching the movie Cheering and laughing ( not one phone went off, no on talked to each other). It was just a wonderful time.

Any of my other people who stood in line have similar experiances

[Razorback]

I could nit pick some other stuff about how Tatooine seemed like a set or something

You made me giggle... it was not a set. ;)

It probably should have been rated 'R'.

I don't know... it wasn't THAT bad. I mean, some things were shocking but I thought, for the most part, that it was played down a lot. It wasn't any worse than Two Towers.

On a side note, one of the people I went with had never seen any of the other five episodes. She was totally lost and had no idea what was going on from the get go. Oh well.

I can imagine. People who have seen all of the movies are confused about some of the most obvious things. ;)

[slizzelizzel]

I thought of another problem about the opening sequence w/ Count Dooku. Anakin is saying "It's not the Jedi way". But the thing is, it IS the Jedi way. Mace might have gone to Palpatine to arrest him, but he knew that it'd end up in a fight, and that one of the party's wasn't going to make it out alive. There is no reasoning with a Sith, so it makes no sense that Anakin took such a long pause to kill him. I think he should have cut his hand off and done a twirl thing and cut him in half. It does help portray the struggle he's having inside of himself, though.


Also the fact that he cried after destroying the separatists, and not after he murdered a bunch of little kids.


Something that would have been sweet, and made the movie so much sadder, is when Vader comes in to kill the younglings, and the little kid said his line, then Vader stepped back and ignited his lightsaber, and it cut to a far shot of the little kid igniting his, THEN cut to the next scene. That would have been crazy.

[Razorback]

I thought of another problem about the opening sequence w/ Count Dooku. Anakin is saying "It's not the Jedi way". But the thing is, it IS the Jedi way.

Executing a defeated enemy is not the Jedi way.

Mace might have gone to Palpatine to arrest him, but he knew that it'd end up in a fight, and that one of the party's wasn't going to make it out alive.

I am not convinced that is what he thought. I think he thought that 4 Jedi could defeat the Sith together. However, that has nothing to do with your first point as defeating an enemy in battle (making a killing blow while fighting him) is different from killing an enemy once he is unarmed (literally).

There is no reasoning with a Sith, so it makes no sense that Anakin took such a long pause to kill him.

Anakin pauses because he has Dooku defeated. He has removed BOTH hands (up to the forearm). What is Dooku going to do, bite him? He is on his knees and pleading with his eyes.

Also the fact that he cried after destroying the separatists, and not after he murdered a bunch of little kids.

Well, we don't know what he did after me murdered the little kids. However, he may very well have cried or been crying (on Mustafar) about what he had done as a whole... as the weight of it all hit him.

Something that would have been sweet, and made the movie so much sadder, is when Vader comes in to kill the younglings, and the little kid said his line, then Vader stepped back and ignited his lightsaber, and it cut to a far shot of the little kid igniting his, THEN cut to the next scene. That would have been crazy.

Noooooo... the way it is we see how helpless the younglings are. It makes what we imagine happened more tragic. We get to see a Padawan fight when Bail arrives at the temple and I think that is enough... at least it is for me.

[Threadkiller]

it was not a set. ;)I know, they made the trip back to Tunisia. The shot just looked doctored or something.


It wasn't any worse than Two Towers.Agreed. I don't know, maybe I'm too sensitive. I love violent movies but I think about my brother's kids watching it and gasp.

[JK]

Just got back from watching it a second time.

I'm pissed.

Not about the movie. The movie is just fine- it's perfect. It's everything I've been waiting for since I first heard Vader tell Luke he was his father.

No, I'm getting more and more pissed off that people on BOTH sides of the aisle are politicizing this movie. Maybe I'm just some stupid naive dumbass, but it's a movie. Entertainment. People need to sit back and enjoy it and not ruin for those of us who absolutely sick and FUCKING tired of asshole politicians trying to capitalize on the event and get some political milage out of it. This franchise is meant to transcend the bounds of this earth and the petty bullshit that clutters our lives. It's roots are in the most ancient of mythologies, meant to appeal to the most basic of human emotions and desires. People need to lighten up.

My rant's over.

[Mighty Wingman]

Not to get you ranting again and I certainly don't say this to piss you off but I felt there was some sort of modern social commentary , intended or not , in the movie. I do understand and agree with your sentiment, it is entertainment and ultimately should be treated as such. Even if , perhaps, that was not it's sole purpose.

I recently linked to an article where Lucas said he made Eps 4 through 6 , in part, to get people thinking about religion. He didn't want Star Wars to become a religion ( it has ) but he wanted people to ask questions and through those questions to figure out what they believe. I can only speculate about his possible intentions in Eps 1-3 . Fantasy, fiction, and * ehem politics
cough cough*. It's possible that Pierre Boulle didn't intend Planet of the Apes to be a social commentary either, and people just conviently saw what they wanted to.

I think Sci-fi is a great vehicle for such things. It's a way to mask what you're really saying and make it entertaining. " The truth depends on your point of view." I mean we the people of this one republic probably wouldn't want to believe we've been serving the wrong side and who knows ? Maybe the jedi are the bad guys.

In any case, all kinds of people are going to walk away from this trilogy with all kinds of impressions. You shouldn't let that piss you off.

[JK]

In any case, all kinds of people are going to walk away from this trilogy with all kinds of impressions. You shouldn't let that piss you off.

It's great that different people come away with different things- as an aspiring filmmaker and an artist, that is something I strive for, to connect with the viewer on a personal level. But I'm so sick and tired of turning on the news in the last few weeks and all I see reported about EpIII is how it's a political statement condeming Bush and the American imperialism.

It's crap.

[Razorback]

On the VA boards I made the point that the left wants the Sith to represent Bush. However, if you follow along with the realities of the choices of the Bush administration and the most likely reasons, the Bush administration is more like the Jedi in this movie.

Willing to break some rules to defeat evil. The problem is, if you act the part of the righteous then you fall harder than those who do not when you do as they do. I think that is the greater point of this movie. Also, when Anakin says "You are either with me... or you are my enemy" it just didn't sound much like what Bush said. I just wasn't buying that comparison. That has been used throughout history.

As for the absolutes, the Jedi were dealing in some when they were plotting to overthrow the Supreme Chancellor and "take over" the Senate. Point of view is very important in these movies and those who deal in one absolute or the other are doomed to never figure out what is right or wrong. I think that Lucas shows, in Return of the Jedi, that the only way to win is to not try and fight fire with fire. Luke is the first Jedi to realize that when he throws down his weapon. He sticks by his code and wins.

Sure, it is simplistic and probably doesn't apply to most real world situations but it is an interesting thing to consider.

[Efexeye]

It was good. And it was Star Wars. Was it the end-all-be-all of moviedom? No, and I think to anticipate that is an unfair expectation.

However, I agree about the R rating being more appropriate for such a violent movie- especially the scenes when Vader is on fire and still talking- and for LOTR: ROTK, too!

I think my favorite moment was when Mace Windu made the Emperor scar himself with his own Force powers. It was pretty much the only thing I didn't know about going in to it.

Also, Yoda's fight scene with the Emperor in the Senate was dope.

Now, the only question is....well, I'll save it for a poll.

I'll go put it up now!

[JK]

Sure, it is simplistic and probably doesn't apply to most real world situations but it is an interesting thing to consider.

To me, it's as if the politicians are co-opting my childhood. That's what really burns my hide.

[actualsize]

I loved it! Just got out 45 minutes ago, and I'm still grinning.

I mean, some things were shocking but I thought, for the most part, that it was played down a lot. It wasn't any worse than Two Towers Yeah, but with Two Towers, and all of LOTR, we knew what was going to happen because we've read the books umpteen times before we went to see the movie. So, at least in my case, I knew not to take my kids, and that it would be a "hard" PG-13. That one should have been an "R" too. We have the DVDs, but I won't let them watch yet - they are not ready.

THis one may not be an "R", but it is on that edge. The set-up in I and II didn't really give you an idea how graphic some of those scenes were going to be. Kids (and parents) who saw I & II and who think Anakin is a cute little pod racer, or a rebellious teen, are in for a rude awakening. In fact, I saw more than one set of parents walk out with their 8 or 10 year old kids during the film, and another trying to comfort their 6 or 8 year old during the credits.

Yeah, it was PG-13 and the others were PG, but now I'm in the uncomfortable position where my 6 & 9 year old daughters, who liked IV, V, VI, and I, and want to see II, are going to have to be told that they are going to have to wait a few years to see this. I'm disappointed that we can't share this for awhile. This film was not made for kids, as some of the others have been. That's OK - I don't think this story could have been told any other way - but the leap in graphicity (graphicness?) will catch some parents unawares.

I just find it odd that saying fuck, asshole, motherfucker - just words - will guarantee an "R", but cutting off limbs, or heads, or burning alive, etc. will only merit a PG-13 at best - because you never said fuck, or even hell, or darnit, or shucks.

[Efexeye]

To me, it's as if the politicians are co-opting my childhood. That's what really burns my hide.

I'd try not to take it too seriously.

I don't often go here, but in college, I studied Communications, and a large part of that was Media Studies. We spent 3 years reading stuff into other stuff to get material for papers.

These comparisons are drawn purely hypothetically. However, I think it would be rash to assume that NO consideration of current events makes it into a writer's head when they sit down to bang out a script. As a matter of fact, the connection to current events is what makes a lot of T.V shows great - All in the Family, South Park, and the Simpsons are some current examples.

However, Bush is a Sith? It's a stretch to entertain that idea...and Star Wars is a big event. Everyone wants to put their stamp on it, and that's how some (irresponsible) media outlets have chosen to spin it.

Whatever- it was tight, I wanna go again!

[JK]

the connection to current events is what makes a lot of T.V shows great

Yeah, that's great for TV, but Star Wars is supposed to timeless. I don't doubt that modern events colored the writing of Ep III, but the parrallels that some of these politicians and media types are drawing can be applied to other areas and groups. For example, everywhere I look, the comparison between Anakin's "not with me" and Bush's "not with us" is being made repeatedly. None of them mention that radical Muslims say the same thing about other religions, particularly Christians and Jews.

All of this makes me wish I was seven again, waiting for Empire to hit the theater, and blissfully unaware.

But who really cares? This is just my opinion.

[RobinHoodDaffy]

Part of what gets me about all the discussion of the politics of ROTS is the basic fact that ALL OF THE GROUNDWORK FOR THE POLITICS WAS SET UP BY THE FIRST FILM IN THE SEVENTIES!!!!! It's not like he is retrofitting the story for current needs. Empy disolves the Senate in ep IV. because he has found a new way to conrol the masses, but it is established that he is indeed controlling the masses. Sheesh, makes no damn sense even to a far lefty like me.

[actualsize]

I'm glad I haven't been watching any "news" programs recently. I'd have been pissed if I went into the theater with any of that bullshit in my head.

Just another reason why I prefer to see movies on opening day.

[actualsize]

I think there was one scene that I thought could have easily been edited out (that didn't work as well as the others) but my friends indicated that they even liked the Anakin and Padme stuff.I think I know which one you mean. There was one exchange in particular between them that seriously made me think "The W.B." while I watched. But I don't care, really.

[FanGirl]

*Puts on flame retardant suit* Okay, I realize that I am in the minority here, but I didn't like it all that much. It did have it moments, but overall I didn't feel that it was the great bridge between the prequels and original trilogy that it was suposed to be. There were a lot of moments that ripped me out of the film and a few things that just don't add up.

I have one request when responding to my issues with the film. Your explainations need to come from the movies. They should be able to stand alone without all the bonus materials like books and cartoons and whatnot.

Overall, it was better than the previous two prequels. I did like R2D2 kicking butt, the saber fights were all good, the yoda fight and the jedi cleaning.

The first thing that really bothered me because it just didn't make any sense was why was a robot wheezing and coughing? General Grevious seemed like a 90 year old chain smoker. This bugged the hell out of me. If he was part man, part machine, then when was that not explained? He looked all robot to me.

The love scenes were brutal again. The whole back and forth on the balcony got nothing, but uncomfortable laughs from the audience. I guess this carries over from Clones, but I don't get why she was cool with him slaughtering a whole village of Sand people in anger, but not cool with him killing others for political reasons.

Depite the Sith covering everything, shouldn't the jedis felt the fact they were about to be killed if only at least a moment beforehand? A lot of the jedis were caught completely unaware.

That's just to start with. I know that a lot of my complaints are nit picky, but only because they pulled me out of the movie. I have more, but I figured I'd start in order. I'm not bashing to bash. I was geniunely hoping to like this. Everyone told me I was going to love it despite the hatred for the previous. I wanted to believe and stupid me got all into the hype. I realize I'm about to be trashed and it doesn't matter. I honestly didn't like it and I can support my reasons why. Let the attacks begin.

[Efexeye]

Plot Nazi, plot Nazi!

Although, I agree, some things defy explanation. For example, hiding Luke on Vader's home planet? WTF?

Grain o' salt, lady, grain o' salt.

I guess the bottom line is that if the niggling plot details don't bother you, you probably will like the movie. If that stuff REALLY matters to you, well, any movie has plot holes that can't be explained.

By the way, I think that if you don't like the movie, that's okay. There is nothing wrong with you- taste in movies, like in music and food, is a subjective thing that can't be explained. You should be able to say you didn't like it without setting yourself up to be called names and flamed, etc.

That said, I'm standing by with a big fire hose for when the flaming starts. Oh, I think it WILL start.

[FanGirl]

I wanted to start slow and work my way up to the bigger issues that stem not only through this, but the whole set of prequels.

[JK]

The first thing that really bothered me because it just didn't make any sense was why was a robot wheezing and coughing? General Grevious seemed like a 90 year old chain smoker. This bugged the hell out of me. If he was part man, part machine, then when was that not explained? He looked all robot to me.



Grevious was part organic and part machine. Right at the end of the fight with Obi-wan, his chest plate got ripped open, exposing his internal organs, which Obi-wan cooked with a blaster. Uncivilized...

You said you didn't want an explanaition involving the cartoons, so your S.O.L. as to why he was wheezing...

(I'll tell it anyway- during a battle with the Jedi, while kidnapping Palpatine, Grevious was the victim of a force crush that damaged his lungs and heart)

[Threadkiller]

, hiding Luke on Vader's home planet? It's outside of the Empire, preotected from Imperial influence the Hutts. He's guarded by Obi-Wan who, on their last meeting managed to soundly defeat Vader. He's with his only remaining family. On top of that, Vader has memories on Tatooine that would probably make him not too keen to visit there.

I think they knew Vader would eventually find him. It's not like he was going to stop looking.

The bottom line is, none of the so-called "plot-holes" are big enough that there can't be some plausible explanation for it. Movies can get bogged down in over explaining things and get boring. I mean, there could be very good reasons why they used the tactics they did when attacking the first death star but who wants to watch a five minute exposition on it when we can get right to the good stuff?

[Efexeye]

It's outside of the Empire, preotected from Imperial influence the Hutts. He's guarded by Obi-Wan who, on their last meeting managed to soundly defeat Vader. He's with his only remaining family. On top of that, Vader has memories on Tatooine that would probably make him not too keen to visit there.

I think they knew Vader would eventually find him. It's not like he was going to stop looking.

The bottom line is, none of the so-called "plot-holes" are big enough that there can't be some plausible explanation for it. Movies can get bogged down in over explaining things and get boring. I mean, there could be very good reasons why they used the tactics they did when attacking the first death star but who wants to watch a five minute exposition on it when we can get right to the good stuff?

Now I'm the one that's discussing a niggling detail (which, by the way, did not affect my enjoyment of the movie in the least), but, Anakin was able to detect that his mother was in pain on Tattooine without even trying. I think he would definitely sense a vergeance in the force around Luke on Tattooine. I also agree that Yoda probably knew that Vader would find Luke, eventually.

I agree about the plot holes, though- they can really only ruin the movie for you if you let them. It's important to a lot of people, though- it's called being a geek.

EDIT: I gotta mention, by the way, that Yoda may now be my favorite character in all the movies. Seeing his knowledge of the Force and his skill with a saber in action have really raised his cool factor for me. I absolutely HATED his fighting style in Episode 2, but he redeemed himself in Episode 3.

[JK]

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/newsfinder/pulseone.asp?guid={678C5C4F-3710-49A5-8CCF-E4CF6AA3DDC5}&siteid=mktw

If somone could tell me how to make the link look pretty I would, but in the mean time, the record for a first day movie opening has been smashed. Take that, Shrek...

[Razorback]

If somone could tell me how to make the link look pretty I would, but in the mean time, the record for a first day movie opening has been smashed. Take that, Shrek...

Holy crap! That is insane. It beat the biggest opening-day ever by about $10 million and one-day by $5 million.

[Razorback]

Okay, I realize that I am in the minority here, but I didn't like it all that much.

No way! I am soooo surprised. ;)

Everyone told me I was going to love it

Not everyone.

I honestly didn't like it and I can support my reasons why. Let the attacks begin.

I don't actually care whether you liked it or not. So, no attacks. I had no doubt that you would dislike it. In fact, I have been surprised that some of the usual suspects actually liked it. So, no prob. The movie rules the universe.

I can't wait to see a little movie in a couple of days...

[Razorback]

Anakin was able to detect that his mother was in pain on Tattooine without even trying. I think he would definitely sense a vergeance in the force around Luke on Tattooine.

No, Anakin has premonitions about the pain of those he has a bond with, through dreams. He has no idea that he has a son or daughter. In fact, he thinks they died with his wife.

I agree about the plot holes

There are no plot holes in any of her points. They are things she doesn't want to understand or make sense. A plot hole is something that doesn't make any sense no matter how you look at it, or a major contradiction. A plot paradox, if you will. Luke living on Tatooine with Anakin's step-brother is not a plot hole, it is just difficult for some to accept.

While the prequels made the universe seem a bit smaller they also deal with each of these points in a way that it CAN be explained without being a contradiction. Even Leia's statement about her mother in Jedi can easily be explained. Some people (like Fangirl) just don't want that to be the explanation. I suspect a lot of it has to do with their need to have the prequels suck no matter what explanation can be made for their issues with them. She doesn't want to like the movies and she won't. Nothing will change that.

[FanGirl]

Please explain how to justify the whole:

"That boy is our last hope."
"No, there is another."

Ben knows there is another hope. Why would he say that?

[Razorback]

Please explain how to justify the whole:

"That boy is our last hope."
"No, there is another."

Ben knows there is another hope. Why would he say that?

Ben doesn't believe that Leia can be trained to defeat Vader and the Emperor. Luke is much more like his father. He is a pilot and already someone who uses his Force powers (he has learned so much). Leia, on the other hand, is much like her mother. She has, perhaps, been using her Force powers to forward her political agenda and not for fighting. Like her mother, she has some skill with a blaster but she is more of a leader than a fighter.

More importantly, it was a plot device used to make the audience believe that Luke might actually die. If you have a problem with this line, then you have a problem with ROTJ too... and perhaps the entire saga.

[Efexeye]

No, Anakin has premonitions about the pain of those he has a bond with, through dreams. He has no idea that he has a son or daughter. In fact, he thinks they died with his wife.

Okay. I'll buy that.

My $.02 on the whole "prequel hater" thing is that some people were hoping that the new movies would have the same kind of quaint, underbudgeted, quasi-cheesy charm as the first 3. Not me- I love the new movies as much as the old ones. My only worry is, that, watching them in order, the effects will look cheesy and sparse in the OT, and that the saber fighting really takes a step down from the prequels to the OT.

The whole tone of the OT is different than of the prequels. Doesn't bother me a bit- I like the movies as a whole, and I can take the faults with a grain of salt.

Was I crying coming out of the theater because it's all over? Hell no, I'm glad I don't have to worry about the hype around another movie. You know what else? Lucas has said that he is glad that Star Wars is over, and I don't blame him even a little bit.

[Razorback]

Okay. I'll buy that.

His son has a similar power... they can see the pain of those they love. Vader knows this (because he experienced it twice himself) and that is why he tortures Han.

My $.02 on the whole "prequel hater" thing is that some people were hoping that the new movies would have the same kind of quaint, underbudgeted, quasi-cheesy charm as the first 3.

They were hoping for more than they ever received from the originals. Just talk to people who have not been brainwashed one way or the other, who did not grow up with the originals. They usually either love both or hate both.

My only worry is, that, watching them in order, the effects will look cheesy and sparse in the OT, and that the saber fighting really takes a step down from the prequels to the OT.

Mostly only in ANH. I think that the saber fighting works in the OT (except for ANH) because it is a padawan fighting someone who is mostly machine and who has not used his saber much.

The whole tone of the OT is different than of the prequels. Doesn't bother me a bit- I like the movies as a whole, and I can take the faults with a grain of salt.

I think I would have been a bit disappointed had the tone of both been the same. So six movies of the same tone? I dig that they are so different and yet tell a single story.

Lucas has said that he is glad that Star Wars is over, and I don't blame him even a little bit.

Ditto. I felt really good walking out of the theatre. I have loved the entire saga and am happy to leave it on a high note.

[JK]

Mostly only in ANH. I think that the saber fighting works in the OT (except for ANH) because it is a padawan fighting someone who is mostly machine and who has not used his saber much.

After watching ANH yesterday when I got home from Ep III, the saber duel, while sparse and nowhere near the scale of Kenobi and Vader's duel on Mustafar, did not seem at all outof place to me. To me, it looked as if Vader was toying with Kenobi. And Ben knew he was going to die, he knew he was going to become one with the Force. I think he could have given Vader a harder time- look at the quickness when Ben took out the dude in the cantina, but why prolong the inevitable. Ben knew he could do more on the other side. Just my opinion. And like you said, someone who is mostly machine and who has not used his saber much Most fans know Vader's been cock of the walk for some 16 years, never having to fight another Jedi for at least a decade.

[BAMSS04]

Yeah, not to mention. In ESB he was fighting his son, I don't care how evil he was as soon as he realized it was his son he started to become Anakin once again. I found the exact moment in which he started to turn back to Anakin. Right when R2 fixes the hyperdrive, Vader normally would have choked they Admiral fro letting them get away. He didn't though, nope. He walked away and seemed as though he were " pleased" luke got away.

I thought it was the third most touching moment IN all the movies.

As for the plot, I thought that it tied together perfectly.
My only question is that as much as Laya was around Vader, which I gather was a few times, ( See as how she seemed to know him personally, and he vader said " this time") he never sensed anything about her. I mean nothing. I guess it is explainable, just weird. Also the fact that Laya remembers her " real" mother, but luke is the only one of the two that she touched before she died. Those are just little things though.

[Efexeye]

Those are just little things though.

Yes, but for some people, their whole feelings about all the movies turn on those "little things"...I think it's a credit to Lucas that people take his work so seriously, and it's also probably a big part of why he is sick of Star Wars.

[ratm1966]

Here is my two cents on the whole Vader/his kids deal. Palpatine told him he had killed his wife, so obviously, the kids died with her. Why search for someone who is dead. Also, when they showed her funeral procession, I could have swore she had the stomach bulge of a pregnant woman who was still with child. If so, that was also probably a deception to remove doubt for anyone who saw her.

Maybe if someone who watches it again will pay close attention to the funeral procession, they will be able to confirm whether or not they made her look as if she was still with child. Hell, I thought she looked bigger then than she did when she was alive.

[Denyse]

No, she still had a belly. But if you have ever seen a woman immediately after giving birth, their stomach does not immediately go back flat. Post mortem, she would have continued to look that way without anyone having to "make it look as if she was still with child".

[JK]

Maybe if someone who watches it again will pay close attention to the funeral procession, they will be able to confirm whether or not they made her look as if she was still with child. Hell, I thought she looked bigger then than she did when she was alive.

Your eyes did not deceive you- I saw it twice and she did appear to still be with child during the procession.

[Razorback]

Vader normally would have choked they Admiral fro letting them get away. He didn't though, nope. He walked away and seemed as though he were " pleased" luke got away.

Actually, he was too upset to do anything. I actually think we can see the breakdown of Vader when Luke jumps, in Empire. He has this sag in his shoulders like he has lost something precious to him. Then, when he Force communicates with Luke you do get a sense that he is not the same Vader anymore. When Jedi begins he has already started to wonder... to question himself perhaps? You can see it in his actions when his troops bring him Luke. But he doesn't really see it until Palpatine starts frying Luke.

he never sensed anything about her. I mean nothing.

The reason he doesn't sense anything is because it hadn't been written that way yet. ;) But if you want to explain it then he probably couldn't sense in her what she didn't know.

Also the fact that Laya remembers her " real" mother, but luke is the only one of the two that she touched before she died. Those are just little things though.

It has been argued by some fans that perhaps Luke has the power to see into the future while Leia has the power to sense things from her past (and beyond). So while Luke feels the pain of his friends, Leia can sense the essence of her mother. Or, she simply remembers Bail's first wife... who later died and he remarried.

If you really want to explain this stuff then it isn't all that difficult. So far there is nothing in the prequels that actually contradicts the originals any more than the originals contradict the originals.

[Razorback]

Maybe if someone who watches it again will pay close attention to the funeral procession, they will be able to confirm whether or not they made her look as if she was still with child. Hell, I thought she looked bigger then than she did when she was alive.

This was cut from the movie but after her death Yoda tells Bail and Obi-Wan that they must make sure that it seems as if she is still pregnant. I think it may have been cut simply because in reality she would still look pregnant anyway. Perhaps, if people complain about this enough, Lucas will put it back in on the DVD.

[ratm1966]

No, she still had a belly. But if you have ever seen a woman immediately after giving birth, their stomach does not immediately go back flat. Post mortem, she would have continued to look that way without anyone having to "make it look as if she was still with child".
I am not trying to be a smartass with this answer, but yeah, I am a dad, so I have seen it in real life before. However, she had twins and her abdomin area should have lowered some. In the funeral procession, it was very prominant and rounded as if she was still with child. More so than what she looked before she gave birth.

This was cut from the movie but after her death Yoda tells Bail and Obi-Wan that they must make sure that it seems as if she is still pregnant. I think it may have been cut simply because in reality she would still look pregnant anyway. Perhaps, if people complain about this enough, Lucas will put it back in on the DVD.
Ha! I knew I wasn't just seeing things. I wasn't complaining about it either. Yeah, I know you weren't saying I was. I just wanted to clarify it anyways. It just struck me as odd when I saw it, then after the movie ended the 'light bulb' popped on and I realized it was probably part of a deception.

[Razorback]

I realized it was probably part of a deception.

Word. I think that dialogue and the Qui-Gon with Yoda stuff should have been left in... but there is always hope that it will make it in later.

[ratm1966]

Word. I think that dialogue and the Qui-Gon with Yoda stuff should have been left in... but there is always hope that it will make it in later.
Yeah, I kind of thought there must have been some editing when Yoda told Obi Wan about Qui-Gon because it seemed as if maybe there should have been something to cause Yoda to say what he did....like maybe a conversation between him and Qui-Gon.

[DarthMaulRat]

I think Obi-wan not seeing the spirit of Qui-gon works in terms of the overall saga. Yoda tells us in III that a Jedi can return from the dead, leaving a big mystery, but as soon as person sees Empire, they should understand exactly what he means. It's a big "now I get it!" moment. Now all you have to do is find someone who hasn't seen Episode V before III.

I also think that it works in terms of setting up mythology. If we knew exactly how everything happened, what would we discuss?

[Razorback]

I think Obi-wan not seeing the spirit of Qui-gon works in terms of the overall saga.

There is no Qui-Gon spirit seen. The way it was, in Revenge... Qui-Gon is heard and Yoda speaks back to him. Qui-Gon tells Yoda that the power of eternal life is something the Sith can never have because they lack the most important element... compassion (or love, in one version). Yoda then tells Qui-Gon that he (Yoda) has been wrong in how he has run the Jedi Order and that he now accepts Qui-Gon as his master (indicating that Qui-Gon's belief that a Jedi should focus on the Living Force, as mentioned in TPM, is correct).

I feel that it is one of the most important cuts because of the impact it has on all six of the movies. I have no idea why it was cut and it is something that I hope is on the DVD.

[BAMSS04]

I was madd as well, I loved that part in the book.

Dissappointed I was, that it was not in the movie.

[psychofiend]

Episode Three was actually pretty doggone good. For the first time it seems like George Lucas thought it out before creating yet another prequel. There was something very different about this film in comparison to the others. Episode III was an amazingly dark film by comparison to all of the other previous Star Wars films. There were many parts that were quite disturbing in the film and it seemed like the film didn't try to take the dark things of the story and make them seem almost ok, as was done with the 1st trilogy. In this one it was made very clear that everyone was fucked. There was a small glimmer of hope in the end of Ep. III but it seemed more like they were fucked and there was nothing that could be done, so the jedi must hide and the Empire's power grows stronger. If the next episode of the story was not already released, people would be flocking like crazy to see "A new Hope" after this very dark "Revenge of the Sith." After seeing how well George Lucas made this one, i think it would be very possible for him to make some good films if he decides to make Episodes VII, VIII, and IX. For now, I am finally satisfied with what George Lucas has already done. And I would like to thank him for not giving Jar-Jar a speaking part at all in this film.

[Razorback]

And I would like to thank him for not giving Jar-Jar a speaking part at all in this film.

Jar-Jar says "excuse me" in the movie. This was Lucas' way of giving Ahmed Best a speaking part.

[Omaru]

Okay now the question is how come when Mace deflect Palpatines sith powers back onto him it deforms him, but considering how long luke is treated to this electroshock therapy in Jedi, he's not remotely cooking.

I guess to answer my own question, he wasn't trying to kill him in Jedi since he wanted Luke's alliegence., unlike Mace where he was giving it his absolute to destroy him.

[BAMSS04]

That and the deflection went directly into the Palpatines face, where as luke was taking most of it on the body. So for all we know he might have been. I still maintain to this day that Luke could have defeated Palpatine, but he wanted to bring back his father. I think that if it had gone on any longer. Palpatine would have been killed by Luke. Thats what I think.

[Razorback]

Yeah, the lighting shoots right into Palpatine's face. Plus, I am sure there is some amplification upon reflection from a lightsaber at such a close range. Also, Palpatine was kind of torturing Luke with the Force lighting in Jedi. In the end he was going to kill him but Vader stepped in.

There is also the thought that Palpatine allowed himself to get extra fried to gain sympathy from Anakin. He is clearly trying to get Anakin to think that Windu is the aggressor and that Palpatine is the weak old man just trying to defend himself.

[slizzelizzel]

Okay, so wft is up with James Earl Jones not getting listed in the credits as the voice for Darth Vader? I really hope IMDB made a mistake and that he really is there, because that would suck if he wasn't credited.

[Omaru]

Razorback, I'll agree with that, espcially the way he screams in pain and makes himself appear to be completely defenseless, the visual aid was just the icing on his manipulative cowardice.

[Azraelle]

My son told me yesterday that what he liked about the movie was how Palpatine twisted things so that Anakin would believe him. I somehow found that disturbing.

[ratm1966]

My son told me yesterday that what he liked about the movie was how Palpatine twisted things so that Anakin would believe him. I somehow found that disturbing.
The key part of your statement is "My son..." I mean, what guy wouldn't appreciate the deceptiveness of Palpatine. He was masterfull in the way he lured Anakin to the dark side.

[Razorback]

Okay, so wft is up with James Earl Jones not getting listed in the credits as the voice for Darth Vader?

I believe there are some union issues with this... like, JEJ working on a non-union project without being given SAG union benefits by JAK. I could be wrong of course. The other reason could be that he didn't record Vader's dialogue. If you listen to Christensen's speaking pattern in the prequels you can hear how he has adopted JEJ's monotone inflection. With some processing work by Skywalker Sound, he could easily sound a lot like JEJ's Vader.

After the movie ended my buddy said to me "That was not JEJ." I agree.

[Azraelle]

The key part of your statement is "My son..." I mean, what guy wouldn't appreciate the deceptiveness of Palpatine. He was masterfull in the way he lured Anakin to the dark side.

To me the key part is that he's fourteen. I think he has some evil plan to take over the world that he's not telling me about. Plus he's an inherently manipulative child. The only person he can't manipulate is Mommy. And that's 'cause, in terms of manipulation, she's waaaayyyy ahead of him.

As for guys' appreciating manipulation... you do women's wiles a great disservice with that statement. You, of all people, should know better.

Oh and as for the James Earl Jones thing: people, listen more carefully! That was soooooo obviously not JEJ. It was Hayden all the way, but very well done, IMO.

[ratm1966]

To me the key part is that he's fourteen. I think he has some evil plan to take over the world that he's not telling me about. Plus he's an inherently manipulative child. The only person he can't manipulate is Mommy. And that's 'cause, in terms of manipulation, she's waaaayyyy ahead of him.

As for guys' appreciating manipulation... you do women's wiles a great disservice with that statement. You, of all people, should know better.

Oh and as for the James Earl Jones thing: people, listen more carefully! That was soooooo obviously not JEJ. It was Hayden all the way, but very well done, IMO.
Now now....I didn't say anything against the ability of a woman to manipulate. I just basically said any guy would appreciate the deceptive tactics that were used. Believe me when I say this, I know that when it comes to manipulation, women can't be beat....:D

[slizzelizzel]

I believe there are some union issues with this... like, JEJ working on a non-union project without being given SAG union benefits by JAK. I could be wrong of course. The other reason could be that he didn't record Vader's dialogue. If you listen to Christensen's speaking pattern in the prequels you can hear how he has adopted JEJ's monotone inflection. With some processing work by Skywalker Sound, he could easily sound a lot like JEJ's Vader.

After the movie ended my buddy said to me "That was not JEJ." I agree.

Yeah, but on IMDB JEJ is listed as this:

James Earl Jones .... Darth Vader (voice) (uncredited)

Just kind of odd...

Also, were there any scenes where Kenny Baker was really in the R2 suit? I couldn't tell if there was a real R2 in it at all.

[Omaru]

Also, were there any scenes where Kenny Baker was really in the R2 suit? I couldn't tell if there was a real R2 in it at all.

Apparently, theres so much unused footage of him as artoo, that they were able to use some of his for this movie, so technically yes, but I don't think he actually had to sit inside the chassis for any filming of this partiuclar movie.

[Razorback]

Yeah, but on IMDB JEJ is listed as this:

James Earl Jones .... Darth Vader (voice) (uncredited)

Just kind of odd...

I am sure I have mentioned this before... IMDB accepts fan submissions. It is not the be-all, end-all of information.

Also, were there any scenes where Kenny Baker was really in the R2 suit? I couldn't tell if there was a real R2 in it at all.

I believe there was one scene... but it may have been cut. Lucas probably credits him because he can. :)

[slizzelizzel]

I have a question about the lightsabers. Why were they pointy in this movie? None of the other movies (That I could tell) have the pointed tip lightsabers.

Also, was it not a little much for R2 to catch the comlink? I mean, come ON! Jet packs I can deal with, but catching a comlink that Obi tossed was a little much for me.

[JK]

I have a question about the lightsabers. Why were they pointy in this movie? None of the other movies (That I could tell) have the pointed tip lightsabers.

Also, was it not a little much for R2 to catch the comlink? I mean, come ON! Jet packs I can deal with, but catching a comlink that Obi tossed was a little much for me.


I would imagine that R2's appendages operate with some sort of magnetizm. And the sabers- until now, there was never really any close ups of the tips that I remember.

[psychofiend]

I would imagine that R2's appendages operate with some sort of magnetizm. And the sabers- until now, there was never really any close ups of the tips that I remember.
Ther light sabers are made by a crystal in the middle, it was on the Attack of the Clones cartoon on Cartoon Network.

[JK]

Cartoon Network.


never heard of it...:rolleyes:

[slizzelizzel]

Ther light sabers are made by a crystal in the middle, it was on the Attack of the Clones cartoon on Cartoon Network.

No, that's what Cartoon Network says, and it's mildly true, but the way they show lightsabers being made was about 90% wrong. That's just not how it's done. However, if you really wanna know how it's done, read Shadows of the Empire.

[Razorback]

I have a question about the lightsabers. Why were they pointy in this movie? None of the other movies (That I could tell) have the pointed tip lightsabers.

Go back and watch all the movies again. Then find for me a similar scene where you can compare pointy and not pointy. I have noticed that you like to conjecture a ton... so just once, provide something to back up your guesswork. Thanks. ;)

Also, was it not a little much for R2 to catch the comlink? I mean, come ON! Jet packs I can deal with, but catching a comlink that Obi tossed was a little much for me.

So now you are going to slowly shit on the movie so that in 500 postings you will have discovered a way to hate every scene? It is a fucking fantasy movie. GET THE FUCK OVER IT!

[JamesW]

Also, was it not a little much for R2 to catch the comlink? I mean, come ON! Jet packs I can deal with, but catching a comlink that Obi tossed was a little much for me.

Havent you ever heard of the force?

[Mighty Wingman]

Go back and watch all the movies again. Then find for me a similar scene where you can compare pointy and not pointy.

I noticed it too. Not that I have a problem with it, but for example in ROTJ , right after Luke cuts off Vaders hand, he points a nice rounded green blade at Vaders neck. In TPM, Mauls saber ? Rounded blades. When Qui Gonn pokes through the door on the nemoidian ship. Rounded blade. Now take for instance the image in your sig. Pointy tip.

You asked.

haven't you ever heard of the force.
Oh, that's your answer for everything!

[psychofiend]

I noticed it too. Not that I have a problem with it, but for example in ROTJ , right after Luke cuts off Vaders hand, he points a nice rounded green blade at Vaders neck. In TPM, Mauls saber ? Rounded blades. When Qui Gonn pokes through the door on the nemoidian ship. Rounded blade. Now take for instance the image in your sig. Pointy tip.

You asked.


Oh, that's your answer for everything!
The blade of the saber can be different depending on the angle of which the camera is on it perhaps?

[Mighty Wingman]

Nope , they changed it.

But thanks for playing along, we have some lovely parting gifts for you backstage.

[RobinHoodDaffy]

Just my two cents on the whole James Earl Jones issue. I was listening to an interview with him on NPR's Fresh Air about a month and a half ago, at the end of the interview it was said that James Earl Jones would next appear in this summer's Star Wars: Return of the Sith. Granted things can get edited, but I do believe he at least thought he was gonna be the voice, as Terry Gross does her research and is one of the great interviewers of our age.

[Razorback]

I noticed it too. Not that I have a problem with it, but for example in ROTJ , right after Luke cuts off Vaders hand, he points a nice rounded green blade at Vaders neck. In TPM, Mauls saber ? Rounded blades. When Qui Gonn pokes through the door on the nemoidian ship. Rounded blade. Now take for instance the image in your sig. Pointy tip.

Yup. You are absolutely right. However, I wanted conjecture kid to look instead of guess. You ruined it for me. ;)

[Threadkiller]

Pointy tip.
Maybe they converted to Judaism between Eps II and III. Had to get those little tips sliced.

[Efexeye]

Maybe they converted to Judaism between Eps II and III. Had to get those little tips sliced.

So now they are Jewdi Knights?

[Mighty Wingman]

Well, you can tell by Vaders helmet that he was circumsized.

[slizzelizzel]

Yup. You are absolutely right. However, I wanted conjecture kid to look instead of guess. You ruined it for me.

I wasn't just guessing, I know from watching all of the OT fifty times that they were different. Not that it's a big deal, seeing how in ANH the tips are just flat, and really kinda look crappy, but in ESB and ROTJ they are definately rounded. There really doesn't seem to be a reason to change them, IMO, but I guess it's just whatever floats Lucases boat.

[Razorback]

I wasn't just guessing, I know from watching all of the OT fifty times that they were different. Not that it's a big deal, seeing how in ANH the tips are just flat, and really kinda look crappy, but in ESB and ROTJ they are definately rounded. There really doesn't seem to be a reason to change them, IMO, but I guess it's just whatever floats Lucases boat.

Yep, he changes things depending on how he feels they affect a mood that he wants. There are so many little things that some directors might worry about that he just says "Do it this way" even if it might not fit perfectly with what he has done before or how it fits with physics (like the R2 units in the new Jedi fighters... they can't fit in there at their normal size).

[slizzelizzel]

Yeah, I was wondering about that. The ships aren't thick enough to allow the R2s to fit, I kept on looking to see if R2's feet were sticking out of the bottom, but they definately never were.

After watching ESB and ROTJ last night, I have never been happier that they put the CG Yoda into the prequels. The puppet worked for the type of stuff he was doing on Dagobah, just kind of sitting around, but the CG gives him so much more expression than the puppet ever could.

[Darth Jaundi]

Alright, I have a couple of things to say but I'll be brief.

I'm 29 years old, as a child I was raised on Star Wars. I loved the movies, the comic books, everything. I can still remember drinking from my ROTJ Dixie cups right before I cuddled in under my Star Wars bed sheets. Kept company by the warm glow of my R2D2 nightlight, as I slowly slipping into a deep sleep occupied by a galaxy far far away.

Flash forward, My newfew (crazy enough named Luke) took an interest in Star wars: episode 1, He loved it, I recognized that same look, that awe that I once felt as a kid. The OT did not matter to him. This was HIS Star Wars. His generations turn to have their imaginations explored. Episode 2 came along, Blew the doors off this kid. He was jumping around the house with his lightsaber driving my sister nuts. That joy that these movies brought to him. Here we are now episode 3.

I took him last friday, He was on top of the world. In his mind, he was a jedi. Now after viewing EP 1 to 3. I gave him a wonderful gift. The OT DVD. This was his first experience with it. He watched as though he was watching a foreign film. The pacing too slow, not enough colorful scenery for Cartoon Characters to watch bouncing all over the screen. He was bored to tears

Then I came to a scarey conclusion. The movies are made for a different generation. That there is a huge generation gap between the both. I was disappointed by the prequels and he was diappointed by the originals. The circle is now complete but it is broken.

[slizzelizzel]

That's exactly it. They were made for different generations, but that makes sense, seeing how they were made a generation apart. Seeing how I didn't really get into them until the Special Editions came out, I still have an appreciation for both trilogies (sp?) because they were both part of my childhood and early adolescence. I can accept what happens, and while I am not a big fan of Ep I, I still love the story that all 6 movies tell.

[Razorback]

The pacing too slow, not enough colorful scenery for Cartoon Characters to watch bouncing all over the screen. He was bored to tears

I have younger cousins who were first introduced to Star Wars via the prequels and they just can't get into the OT. However, they seem to like Jedi a bit but find that ANH looks "too fake" and that Empire is "too boring."

I, on the other hand, love them all. They trade off being my favorite month to month and year to year. I think they have all been my favorite at some point. After seeing Revenge a few times I think it will remain as my favorite for a while... mostly because of those last 40 minutes.

[Darth Jaundi]

I just finished watching ANH, Everytime Vader was on the screen I couldn't help but envision "NOOOOOOOOO!!!!" Damn, Lucas really killed Him for me. Maybe he can go back on the SE versions(you know it's coming) and fix that scene. hey if he's willing to screw around with ROTJ why not ROTS. Adding a 20 something Hayden at the end was one hell of a kick in the nuts to fans. Another thing I kinda find funny? Ewan mcgregor should be scared cause in 18 years he's going to look like he's 70.

[Razorback]

I just finished watching ANH, Everytime Vader was on the screen I couldn't help but envision "NOOOOOOOOO!!!!"

Poor baby.

Damn, Lucas really killed Him for me. Maybe he can go back on the SE versions(you know it's coming) and fix that scene.

Fix it? There is nothing wrong with it. I mean, except to people who can't help but find something wrong with what it is and should be... a pathetic scream by a man completely defeated by his poor decisions.

hey if he's willing to screw around with ROTJ why not ROTS. Adding a 20 something Hayden at the end was one hell of a kick in the nuts to fans.

Only to drama queen "fans" who cry about everything... the rest of us didn't care.

Another thing I kinda find funny? Ewan mcgregor should be scared cause in 18 years he's going to look like he's 70.

You do realize that Alec Guinness was only 61 when he filmed the first Star Wars, right? A 61 year old playing a 57 year old isn't much of a stretch. After all, Obi-Wan is 38 in Revenge.

By the way, shouldn't you be crying like a bitch about this latest movie on TheForce.Net instead of coming here? I am sure there are dozens of threads just waiting to be created there about how much Lucas raped your asshood.

[Darth Jaundi]

I knew some cry baby Fanboy would come on here defending ROTS. Next you'll try and prove that your opinion is the only correct one (too late).As for going over to The Force.net or whatever. Look at the Thread Topic....plain easy to understand letters "EP. III Discussion" so take your angry little barbs and keep them to yourself.

Ep 3 was a huge disappointment, you're so desperate to believe that you didn't waste the last 6 years of your life waiting for the big payoff, which came off as laughable. The prequels were a mistake but a huge moneymaking one. Which is all that really counts.

You're entitled to your opinion but don't you even think for one second that I'm not entitled to mine.

[Razorback]

I knew some cry baby Fanboy would come on here defending ROTS.

Oh, little girl... I am anything but a cry baby. I am your worst nightmare. I am someone who will beat you with your own stupidity.

Next you'll try and prove that your opinion is the only correct one (too late).

Oh, isn't that your job? To tell everyone how your absolute hatred for the prequels is correct? How Lucas screwed up the prequels and the SE? I mean, you people never say "My take on it" or "In my opinion." It is always your absolute truth. That is because bashers (of anything in popular culture) are all the same. You have "woe is me" personalities and find fault with everything around you and rarely yourself.

As for going over to The Force.net or whatever. Look at the Thread Topic....plain easy to understand letters "EP. III Discussion" so take your angry little barbs and keep them to yourself.

You shit on a movie I love... on a series I love, and I will shit on you for treating it as if your opinion is fact. State your opinion as an opinion and I will respond in kind. I come from an old school Internet where people backed up their shit and didn't state opinion as if it was true.

Ep 3 was a huge disappointment, you're so desperate to believe that you didn't waste the last 6 years of your life waiting for the big payoff, which came off as laughable.

See? You are predictable. I have nothing to worry about. I love all six movies and have nothing to justify. I didn't waste any time because I have been having a blast. I am on the positive end here... big smile on my face. Episode 3 was everything and more than I expected.

The prequels were a mistake but a huge moneymaking one. Which is all that really counts.

Moron boy continues on babbling about his opinions as if they are fact. This is typical of your kind. You all think your negativity is "honest" and "right." This is why people like you are often unhappy, because you find the worst in even the most benign of things. You represent the most pathetic in society. You are a sad person who compounds his unhappiness with more of it.

You're entitled to your opinion but don't you even think for one second that I'm not entitled to mine.

What opinion? You stated it all as absolute fact. You said "Ep 3 was a huge disappointment" not "I was disappointed by Episode 3." There is a difference. The second is an opinion, the first is a statement pretending to be a fact.

[Darth Jaundi]

You sad demented little scared boy.

You're an idiot, plain and simple.
Boneheaded fans like you are the reason I love expressing what I didn't like about the Prequels, Sub-standard pieces of bad film making. Candy coated with shiny dazzling effects. Nothing more than A sensory overload Tech demo.The acting wooden (except mcgregor) or completely over the top. The emperor reminded me of The Joker, silly faces and laughing way too much.Even when he's about to fall, just like in Batman.
The plot came off like a check list, I could almost hear lucas saying...
Space battle.... check, crappy love scene....check, Wookies....check
No surprises, no payoff, no thrills. I didn't plan on tearing EP. 3 apart for you but you left me no choice, oldschool. Don't you find it crazy that having the "high ground" was the deciding factor in both final duels? Flash back to the end of Ep 1 and Obi wan didn't mind the tactic of jumping over Darth Maul, but it made all the difference to Obi wan at the end of Ep 3. Lame, just like you're lame for starting this fight.

Do you want me to continue? Do you have any original thoughts in your head?
Do you have to respond with tired overused lines?
Come on, oldschool, quote me and look more like a jackass.
Bring it. Worst nightmare? you're a punk.

[Razorback]

You sad demented little scared boy.

If that is true then it doesn't say much for you since I am more than happy to take you on. I guess I just find you even more scared and demented.

You're an idiot, plain and simple.

More absolute statements... man, I really nailed you down quickly.

Boneheaded fans like you are the reason I love expressing what I didn't like about the Prequels

Another prequel basher admits that this is less about the movies and more about finding joy in trashing... which is exactly what I have always said about people like you. It makes you happy to try and bring others down. It is because you are very uncomfortable in your skin. You hate yourself and so you project that hate into anything that other people might like that you are too afraid to like because it might shine an even brighter light onto just how much of a loser you are.

Sub-standard pieces of bad film making.

Isn't that redundant?

Candy coated with shiny dazzling effects.

Are you talking about the original trilogy? Empire Strikes Back? That is what critics said about it back in the day.

Nothing more than A sensory overload Tech demo.

Yet you paid to see all three prequels? How strange.

The acting wooden (except mcgregor) or completely over the top.

We are back to the originals, aren't we?

The emperor reminded me of The Joker, silly faces and laughing way too much.Even when he's about to fall, just like in Batman.

Yep, just like he was over the top in Jedi... and I swear I am reading your TF.N postings right now.

The plot came off like a check list, I could almost hear lucas saying...
Space battle.... check, crappy love scene....check, Wookies....check
No surprises, no payoff, no thrills. I didn't plan on tearing EP. 3 apart for you but you left me no choice, oldschool.

Hold on, while I laugh a little on the inside... ok, go on, predictable.

Don't you find it crazy that having the "high ground" was the deciding factor in both final duels? Flash back to the end of Ep 1 and Obi wan didn't mind the tactic of jumping over Darth Maul, but it made all the difference to Obi wan at the end of Ep 3.

If anyone knows how to counter a flip over attack it would be Obi-Wan. After all, he already pulled it on someone else. The high ground is also the best position in any duel. This is really just a nitpick based on your attempt to find anything and everything wrong... the same can be done for nearly every scene in the original trilogy.

Lame, just like you're lame for starting this fight.

You actually typed that thinking it was a cool thing to say, didn't you?

Do you want me to continue? Do you have any original thoughts in your head?

You are now trying to deflect my willingness to counter your babbling by pretending like you have an original thought in your head? Come on, you have no chance in this argument. I haven't even slept yet and I am still owning you.

Do you have to respond with tired overused lines?

Says the basher who sticks to his talking points at every turn. What have you said that was original? Nothing.

Come on, oldschool, quote me and look more like a jackass.
Bring it. Worst nightmare? you're a punk.

I quoted you and I am pretty sure I look a lot less like a jackass than you. I do like how you praise yourself for having said nothing and for having done exactly what you say I am doing. This is your usual defense mechanism when faced with someone more intelligent than you, right? To try and deflect anything they say as a way to make yourself feel better. It is the same reason you trash Lucas and NEED for these movies to suck (which is why you only deal in the absolutes of your opinion). You are incapable of dealing with your disappointment in any other way than to project it on everyone else who has seen the movie.

[Darth Jaundi]

The Fact that you don't realize how stupid you sound by condeming my posts by duplicating the same behavior makes this all worthwhile. Tell me what is so great about these scenes that I'm ripping apart instead of spouting tired insults and outlandish claims over and over, seriously. You sound like a broken record. It's quite foolish and you're beginng to bore me, try harder. You're ability to entertain me is fading.

Edited to say: How could you compare ESB to ROTS. Empire had something Revenge will never have. Good acting, great storytelling, perfect pacing,just the right amount of special effects, actual thrills, you actually give a dam about the characters, a much better delivered "NOOOOO!!!"yell. A believable romance, chemistry between the charcters, excellent dialogue,most emotional, actual character development.

[Razorback]

The Fact that you don't realize how stupid you sound by condeming my posts by duplicating the same behavior makes this all worthwhile.

Double-speak works on people like you, not people like me. Nice try, Forrest.

Tell me what is so great about these scenes that I'm ripping apart instead of spouting tired insults and outlandish claims over and over, seriously.

Outlandish claims over and over? What are you babbling on about? What outlandish claims?

You sound like a broken record. It's quite foolish and you're beginng to bore me, try harder. You're ability to entertain me is fading.

A broken record of insulting your lack of intelligence? So then you admit that people do this often when speaking to you? I am not surprised. You come off as someone who often gets his ass handed to him in Internet arguments.

[Azraelle]

*sniffs air* Mmmmm... nice. Smell the testosterone!

[Razorback]

*sniffs air* Mmmmm... nice. Smell the testosterone!

I think what you are smelling is his diaper.

[Darth Jaundi]

You're not really this stupid are you? Tell me this is just a joke or a character that you play on this board. You're really not this pathetic are you? What do you do for a living? Over 7000 posts, you really have no life, do you? How old are you? Are you over 30 and still live with your parents? I have many questions for you, Is last nights' post-masterbation snack crumbs still on your shirt? Do you post on these boards because no one will talk to you in real life? When someone comes here and posts what they think about anything, you feel compelled to respond? Are you always this easy to get all riled up? Do you believe that your thoughts or opinions actually matter to anyone else? You claim to be intelligent but come off as anti-social nerd, how smart is that? I have more questions but I'll save them for your response.

[Azraelle]

* holds up mirror to Darth Jaundi *

A life that is not self examined is not worth living. ;)

[Darth Jaundi]

Everytime someone mentions how great ROTS is,i'm going to click on this link just to remind myself how wrong they really are.

http://darthno.ytmnd.com/

In three movies Vader/Anakin is reduced to a whiney pathetic punk ass. I felt none of the emotion I was suppose to have for the character. I can go on forever about how disappointed I am, but I'm tired.

[Azraelle]

I'm tired.

Nap time already? Yeah my kids get tired after whiny tantrums too.

[Denyse]

I need a nap! It's draining reading that many "I am the dominant link in the evolutionary chain" posts. Guys, please...

[Azraelle]

I need a nap! It's draining reading that many "I am the dominant link in the evolutionary chain" posts. Guys, please...


Honey, like I said... just smell the testosterone. Count yourself lucky they don't pee in every thread.

[Denyse]

Oh, but they will...Anybody seen the hose?

[JK]

It's crap like this that is making me want to stay away from the boards more and more...


Newbies come in, they state their opinion and a very specific group of people jump right in the middle of their shit with both feet. The newbies stand up for themselves and everyone scurries for cover and starts kissing Razorback's ass. It happens time and time again. Sometimes they deserve it- the jay&bob fanboys who can't type to save their life especially, but frequently, it's just the bullies defending their piece of the playground. All it's doing is mucking up the boards with boring shit and really stagnating the pool of ideas and opinions.

Lately, it seems to me as if you don't agree with certain people here, you're not welcome here. And I know that soon after I post this, some of those people are going to jump in and tell me if I don't like it, I can go somewhere else.

[Denyse]

Newbies come in, they state their opinion and a very specific group of people jump right in the middle of their shit with both feet. The newbies stand up for themselves and everyone scurries for cover and starts kissing Razorback's ass. It happens time and time again. Sometimes they deserve it- the jay&bob fanboys who can't type to save their life especially, but frequently, it's just the bullies defending their piece of the playground. All it's doing is mucking up the boards with boring shit and really stagnating the pool of ideas and opinions.

Lately, it seems to me as if you don't agree with certain people here, you're not welcome here. And I know that soon after I post this, some of those people are going to jump in and tell me if I don't like it, I can go somewhere else.

I'm sorry...But who exactly in this thread jumped into the RB and Darth argument, except for me and Az...And then only to tell them to cool their jets and hormones as they were becoming a little tired. I'm all for debate, but when it becomes a pissing contest, it's time to call a draw...

And I'd never kiss RB's ass. I know where it's been...;)

[FanGirl]

I think I've disagreed with just about everyone here at some point and I haven't had a problem. I've even gotten into with RB on several occassions, but they never result in the whole get out of your mom's basement comments in either direction.

I do agree some of these fights are pretty senseless. Some of these newbies think they are the bees knees when they are more like arm pits. I do think some of the newer regulars over step their bounds, but since their bounds are never truly set it seems like they are on the whim of the regular's mood that day.

Sometimes the boards can be annoying, but overall it's fun especially when you can get milk to come out of someone's nose.

[JK]

I'm sorry...But who exactly in this thread jumped into the RB and Darth argument, except for me and Az...And then only to tell them to cool their jets and hormones as they were becoming a little tired. I'm all for debate, but when it becomes a pissing contest, it's time to call a draw...

And I'd never kiss RB's ass. I know where it's been...;)

...and then people take it a little bit personally when broad generalizations are made.

Maybe I should have started a completely new thread with examples from other threads as illustrations to my point instead of just using the most recent example.
It's the tone this place is taking on as a whole, not just this arguement in this thread.

[ILovePapaSmurf]

And I'd never kiss RB's ass. I know where it's been...;)

OH! Where!?

[FanGirl]

EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW. Please do not answer that.

[ILovePapaSmurf]

No, no, please do! I need to know these things if I am going to stalk him any further. ;)

[Omaru]

While not making milk come out of my nose, the last few posts have very much placed this thread under redemption for now. now remind me not to come back here a I don't need to know the answer to that question either.

[ILovePapaSmurf]

You guys are just plain mean! You must know something I don't and I hate always being the last one to know anything. ;)

[BAMSS04]

You're not really this stupid are you? Tell me this is just a joke or a character that you play on this board. You're really not this pathetic are you? What do you do for a living? Over 7000 posts, you really have no life, do you? How old are you? Are you over 30 and still live with your parents? I have many questions for you, Is last nights' post-masterbation snack crumbs still on your shirt? Do you post on these boards because no one will talk to you in real life? When someone comes here and posts what they think about anything, you feel compelled to respond? Are you always this easy to get all riled up? Do you believe that your thoughts or opinions actually matter to anyone else? You claim to be intelligent but come off as anti-social nerd, how smart is that? I have more questions but I'll save them for your response.



Dude, seriously? I mean I was just going to stay out of this but come on, you did nothing but ask questions that have nothing to do with this.


You have admited that coming in here and pissing on the movie was something you did to piss fans off. Why be suprised when it did? Now, like it or not you got your ass handed to you. Shake it off and move on before it results in you getting banned. You seem like a smart guy so unless the whole reason you got on here was to pick a fight with "Star Wars " nerds, then give it up. If that is the reason you got on here then your life is very sad, and the ban stick is waiting for you.

Thats all I got to say about that.

[Razorback]

You're not really this stupid are you? Tell me this is just a joke or a character that you play on this board. You're really not this pathetic are you? What do you do for a living? Over 7000 posts, you really have no life, do you? How old are you? Are you over 30 and still live with your parents? I have many questions for you, Is last nights' post-masterbation snack crumbs still on your shirt?

If any of this had anything to do with your pretending to be the end-all to the argument at hand then I might answer you. However, this means what? If I was a 30-year old virgin living in his mom's basement and working at Burger King that still wouldn't change the fact that you went into Episode 3 having hated Lucas' last 2 movies and his changes to his original movies. You were predisposed to hating this movie and then you simply went out of your way to find things to hate, that you would have ignored with the originals.

Do you post on these boards because no one will talk to you in real life? When someone comes here and posts what they think about anything, you feel compelled to respond? Are you always this easy to get all riled up?

Others have commented how they did not like the movie and I didn't comment much. It is because they stated their opinion as that. You came in here with an agenda (as one can see from your postings so far) and I hammered you for it. Don't pretend that you are a victim.

Do you believe that your thoughts or opinions actually matter to anyone else?

Even if I did, or did not, I am not sure how that applies to this argument. Yet again, you make nonsensical comparisons and points that seem to come out of thin air. No wonder you hated a kickass movie.

You claim to be intelligent but come off as anti-social nerd, how smart is that?

There you go again... making a nonsensical comparison. Where is the contrast of being intelligent but an anti-social nerd? Do you just use words that you think sound cool? Do you actually read what you are saying? This doesn't actually conform to any logical structure of thought. Also, smart is when you have acquired knowledge and know how to apply it. Intelligence is potential ability to learn.

I have more questions but I'll save them for your response.

Yes, troubled little child... bring on your bumbling.

[Azraelle]

You guys are just plain mean! You must know something I don't and I hate always being the last one to know anything. ;)


Don't worry, I don't know either. And it would seem, in this case, that ignorance really IS bliss! :eek:

[Razorback]

Don't worry, I don't know either. And it would seem, in this case, that ignorance really IS bliss! :eek:

Ditto. No clue and don't care. :)

[Darth Jaundi]

Razorback, I must of hit too close to home for you to be compelled to defend yourself. I went into Ep 3 really wanting to like it, I however was let down by the actual movie. You know, the movie that was presented to me. Your overall generalization of ALL fans that felt disappointed is quite foolish. Your reasoning is " if you hate a movie, you must already want to hate it", What was the last movie that you disliked? Did you dislike it because of no other reason than you hated the director? No, you hated it because the film was not good. Plain and simple, I did not like the movie because it was bad.Why can't you accept that? I defended Ep 1 and Ep 2 for years, and this is how my loyality is repayed? It seems to me, you already loved this movie to death before your Cheetos eating sweaty ass ever even seen it. You were going to love it no matter how bad it was. You had your Star Wars blinders on the whole movie. I called it my Jar Jar block technique but however there was no Jar Jar to block, only the Emperor and Anakin/Vader acting like Battlestar Galactica on our asses. So here you go, be extremely predictable and quote every line and respond with weak little comments. Whatever you do, don't respond with a post entirely of your making explaining what you loved about the movie. Hack.

[Efexeye]

Razorback, I must of hit too close to home for you to be compelled to defend yourself. I went into Ep 3 really wanting to like it, I however was let down by the actual movie. You know, the movie that was presented to me. Your overall generalization of ALL fans that felt disappointed is quite foolish. Your reasoning is " if you hate a movie, you must already want to hate it", What was the last movie that you disliked? Did you dislike it because of no other reason than you hated the director? No, you hated it because the film was not good. Plain and simple, I did not like the movie because it was bad.Why can't you accept that? I defended Ep 1 and Ep 2 for years, and this is how my loyality is repayed? It seems to me, you already loved this movie to death before your Cheetos eating sweaty ass ever even seen it. You were going to love it no matter how bad it was. You had your Star Wars blinders on the whole movie. I called it my Jar Jar block technique but however there was no Jar Jar to block, only the Emperor and Anakin/Vader acting like Battlestar Galactica on our asses. So here you go, be extremely predictable and quote every line and respond with weak little comments. Whatever you do, don't respond with a post entirely of your making explaining what you loved about the movie. Hack.

I can't believe I'm defending Razorback, but, maybe once you have more than a few dozen posts you'll realize that on the 'Shoot, picking your battles is a good idea, especially when it comes to RB and Star Wars. I think you are acting the hack, my friend, especially if you followed someone over to this message board purely to shit on their favorite movies.

[psychofiend]

I can't believe I'm defending Razorback, but, maybe once you have more than a few dozen posts you'll realize that on the 'Shoot, picking your battles is a good idea, especially when it comes to RB and Star Wars. I think you are acting the hack, my friend, especially if you followed someone over to this message board purely to shit on their favorite movies.
FUCKIN'-A
http://www.sitcomsonline.com/fonzthumbsupbw.jpg

[Darth Jaundi]

Yet another warm and welcoming message board.

[slizzelizzel]

It's not like you came in here with good intentions. You said so yourself, you came to make fun of people that liked Episode III.

[Razorback]

Razorback, I must of hit too close to home for you to be compelled to defend yourself.

Yes, my mom is really upset that you hurt my feelings. She is cleaning my basement up right now to make me feel better.

I went into Ep 3 really wanting to like it, I however was let down by the actual movie. You know, the movie that was presented to me.

Well, I loved it. Sorry to hear that you did not enjoy it. I guess I should be happy that I didn't see the same thing you did.

Your reasoning is " if you hate a movie, you must already want to hate it",

No, just people like you who have hated the last two, the SE changes, and who continue to act as if their version of Star Wars is absolutely correct while Lucas is a hack. People like that are bashers. They don't express opinions they express "fact." They like to say things like "How could you possibly like this movie?" They want everyone to agree with them so that they can justify their negativity.

I don't care whether you like the movie or not but I do care when you express your opinion as if it is fact. See, when you do that you belittle everyone who liked the movie. So, in turn, I belittle you for the sake of comparison.

What was the last movie that you disliked?

I don't care... I make an effort to talk about movies I dislike as little as possible. I would never stick around to argue about a movie I truly disliked because it was be a waste of time. Plus, the last movie I hated is a movie I know some people on this board love/will love. So I am not going to shit on them for liking something I hated. I see no point in it and I receive no satisfaction in trying to rub my negative reaction in the face of someone who digs it.

Did you dislike it because of no other reason than you hated the director?

As a matter of fact, I went into the movie with a lot of baggage based on what the director has said and what his fan base has said about Star Wars. So, I freely admit to probably disliking the movie (the name I will not mention) more because I dislike its fan base.

No, you hated it because the film was not good.

Maybe... but I am not going to pretend like I disliked it simply because I thought it was a bad movie. I also disliked it because of my predisposition to dislike it. Just as I believe that you were predisposed to dislike Episode 3.

Plain and simple, I did not like the movie because it was bad.

Plain and simple, I loved Revenge because I thought it was a great movie.

Why can't you accept that?

I have no trouble accepting that you thought it was a bad movie. I am not going to accept that your opinion is a fact. You keep stating it as a fact.

I defended Ep 1 and Ep 2 for years, and this is how my loyality is repayed? It seems to me, you already loved this movie to death before your Cheetos eating sweaty ass ever even seen it.

Actually, I was worried going in because of some of the scenes I had seen in the XBox game. I expressed this worry to a few friends. I was very happy to see that none of those things took anything away from the experience for me. Though, I do love Cheetos.

You were going to love it no matter how bad it was. You had your Star Wars blinders on the whole movie.

Nah, I had my blinders on for AOTC, not for this movie. This one had to be a winner for me or I was not going to be a happy camper. I loved it beyond loving it. There isn't a word in this language that expresses how much I enjoyed Revenge.

I called it my Jar Jar block technique but however there was no Jar Jar to block, only the Emperor and Anakin/Vader acting like Battlestar Galactica on our asses.

What? Battlestar Galactica rules. On asses or anything else.

So here you go, be extremely predictable and quote every line and respond with weak little comments. Whatever you do, don't respond with a post entirely of your making explaining what you loved about the movie. Hack.

You want me to detail what I loved about the movie? Fine, but let me do it in the same way people like you trash the movie, except in the positive (so a ton of absolutes):

This movie was awesome! Everything about it was great! The best thing was Ian McDiarmid, Ewan McGregor, Natalie Portman, and Hayden Christensen! They ruled!

Palpatine is, hands-down, the best villain ever! He is finally a real character and not the wrinkly puppet of a demon that he was in Jedi. The dialogue is better than anything in Empire! The other movies now suck when compared with this movie. Before his transformation, Palpatine is a master manipulator who tries everything to turn Anakin. In the ballet scene, we watch and listen as he tries to poison Anakin's mind with his accusations about the Jedi, but Anakin stays the course and recites the Jedi talking points. Then we see the true genius of Palpatine, and Ian McDiarmid. After Anakin has shot down another attempt by Palpatine to smear the Jedi, he tries something else... we see the smirk on Palpatine's face as he counters with "You ever hear the story of Darth Plagueis?" And the knife finally finds its mark...

When Palpatine transforms, during and after the Windu fight, he slowly settles into the mask he will have through the rest of the story. We hear his voice changing as it finally pulls itself out of the depths of the dark side, where it has remained hidden for decades. McDiarmid is brilliant during these scenes because he really goes for it. He doesn't hold back. This is the classic bad guy and it really shows when he dangles from the senate pod, after Yoda has fallen, and madly cackles with joy at his victory over the Jedi.

General Grievous was AWESOME! I loved him as the slimey bad guy retreating from a fight so that his henchmen can die at the hands of our heroes... who then finally jumps into the fight only to get blasted by the better man.

Anakin's turn into Vader is completely believable and finally makes the character seem like someone who actually had a reason to be redeemed. No longer is he just the dark villain who has a mean case of asthma. He isn't an absolute monster but a complex, emotional mess who is tricked into following a path that causes the exact thing that he wanted to prevent.

Obi-Wan and Yoda are both too cool for school. They kick ass, take names, and express devastation with broad emotional range. There is nothing negative that can be said about either. They prove exactly why they were the only two Jedi left to do anything at the beginning of the original trilogy.

Padme is shown as a woman hanging onto the man she loves until the last second. Even after he snaps, she still asks if he is ok. She still believes there is good in him. She loves him to a fault, as he does her.

The final end to Anakin happens when he is told that he has killed Padme. It is then that we hear the rumble of his agony breaking the man... it is pathetic and it should be because Vader finally realizes that he has lost the only thing that really mattered to him. As he screams we see the end of Anakin and the complete transformation to Darth Vader... it is also nearly a shot for shot homage to Frankenstein. Lucas is painting in thick strokes on his final canvas, reminding the audience that this is a monster created and put back together by the madman, Palpatine. The scream also reminded me a lot of the "Oooohhh aghhhhh!" from the Empire Strikes Back duel with Luke. That is probably JEJ's range in expressing anguish and fits with the character.

I will write more later... so much more gushing left to do.

[Denyse]

Yet another warm and welcoming message board.

Oh...So then we aren't the only ones who dislike you and wish you would just go away. Good to know. Maybe you should take that as a sign and step away from the keyboard. Get out into that big "real world" that you criticize others for not living in...

[Efexeye]

Yet another warm and welcoming message board.

Oh, boo-fucking-hoo. You brought it on yourself.

[psychofiend]

Oh...So then we aren't the only ones who dislike you and wish you would just go away. Good to know. Maybe you should take that as a sign and step away from the keyboard. Get out into that big "real world" that you criticize others for not living in...
You gotta love newbies. They're fucking halarious. I would like to make a toast to Darth JAUNDICE, the yellow skinned maniac who came to this board to make fun of us for liking episode III.
A TOAST TO DARTH JAUNDICE!
http://gallery.chambana.net/albums/DanielleVictoryParty/toast.jpg

[ratm1966]

I called it my Jar Jar block technique but however there was no Jar Jar to block, only the Emperor and Anakin/Vader acting like Battlestar Galactica on our asses.
What the fuck is wrong with Battlestar Galactica? That show kicks major ass. As did the original series.

[Razorback]

What the fuck is wrong with Battlestar Galactica? That show kicks major ass. As did the original series.

There is nothing wrong with it. Remember, he is a guy who thinks that if he doesn't like something then it sucks, period (who then tells you not to judge him based on that mentality... dizzying intellect).

[ratm1966]

I like watching the Sci-Fi network in the mornings, as depending on the day of the week, they will show nothing but one series (First Wave, Buck Rogers, Battlestar Galactica (original series, etc.)

It is funny to see a lot of the same effects and shot in Buck Rogers as what was in Battlestar Galactica. Some of it looks as if they lifted footage right from the series. A good example is the launching of the fighters from the Galactica; they have those triangle shaped tubes they rocket down, because the fit the shape of the fighters. Buck Rogers had completely different shaped fighters, but used the same footage of a triangular shaped launch tube...hilarious.

[Darth Jaundi]

Keep gushing about Episode 3, it just reminds me that you have no idea what you're talking about. The characters were cartoon-like and the performances laughable. Thw plot was weak, greivous of no consequence (created to sell toys) the lightsaber duels badly shot and presented. The camera is never where the audience wants to be. Either too close or completely too far away.The editing was a mess, not letting the audience enjoy anything for more than 20 seconds before cutting to another empty scene. A badly presented film with no moments to make you believe that this was a long time ago in a galaxy far far away. Looked like it took place in a hollywood basement and created by a toy company. the "fantasy" part of this movie was that it was good to begin with.

[slizzelizzel]

Hey, buddy. Take a look at the Original Trilogy again sometime. The acting wasn't all that great then, either. If you hate this movie so much, why are you still talking about it? Find something you like and have a dicussion about that! How is Grievous any more of a way sell toys than Darth Maul was? If you think it was so bad, how about you try and make the fucking movie, or you could just shut the hell up.

[Darth Jaundi]

I have looked back at the OT. Sadly, I look back at what my beloved Star Wars used to be. Now it's become a parody of itself. That's all I'm going to say on the matter, continue on in ignorant bliss.

[JamesW]

Can't you guys just agree to disagree?

[actualsize]

I just finished watching ANH, Everytime Vader was on the screen I couldn't help but envision "NOOOOOOOOO!!!!" Damn, Lucas really killed Him for me. Maybe he can go back on the SE versions(you know it's coming) and fix that scene. hey if he's willing to screw around with ROTJ why not ROTS. Adding a 20 something Hayden at the end was one hell of a kick in the nuts to fans. Another thing I kinda find funny? Ewan mcgregor should be scared cause in 18 years he's going to look like he's 70.

Look, I just came home from work, and read throught this whole load of back and forth crap. DJ started off with a pretty tame post (see above - this was actually the 2nd, the 1st was quite thoughtful), and used wording stating this as HIS OPINION "killed it FOR ME," and "Another thing I FIND kinda funny." And he immediately gets laid into for it.

So I see his point about thinking "Why I am getting shit for stating my opinion in a thread entitled EP III discussion?" OK, after that, he's back on his heels and becomes a dick, but he got treated pretty harsh and got knocked back onto his heels pretty abruptly. [IN MY OPINION.] I don't think he came in here to bait people AT FIRST, but once attacked, he responded that way.

So why the hell does a newb have to put up with this, especially if the 1st and 2nd posts were not that bad? Does this board exist just for 10 or 12 people? If so, why the hell did Ryall and Ming bother to spend the money to upgrade it?

[Denyse]

Dude...You've said goodbye twice now. Stop teasing us and actually leave. Pretty please?

[slizzelizzel]

Last night...this morning... whenever it was that he started posting, yeah, he was being pretty good about his stuff. He was making sense and not getting on anyones back. Then Rb came in and bitch slapped him in the usual way, and he just went on teh offensive. I'm sure he's not all that bad, but he needs to just stop being such a dick.

[Efexeye]

You sad demented little scared boy.

You're an idiot, plain and simple.
Boneheaded fans like you are the reason I love expressing what I didn't like about the Prequels, Sub-standard pieces of bad film making. Candy coated with shiny dazzling effects. Nothing more than A sensory overload Tech demo.The acting wooden (except mcgregor) or completely over the top. The emperor reminded me of The Joker, silly faces and laughing way too much.Even when he's about to fall, just like in Batman.
The plot came off like a check list, I could almost hear lucas saying...
Space battle.... check, crappy love scene....check, Wookies....check
No surprises, no payoff, no thrills. I didn't plan on tearing EP. 3 apart for you but you left me no choice, oldschool. Don't you find it crazy that having the "high ground" was the deciding factor in both final duels? Flash back to the end of Ep 1 and Obi wan didn't mind the tactic of jumping over Darth Maul, but it made all the difference to Obi wan at the end of Ep 3. Lame, just like you're lame for starting this fight.

Do you want me to continue? Do you have any original thoughts in your head?
Do you have to respond with tired overused lines?
Come on, oldschool, quote me and look more like a jackass.
Bring it. Worst nightmare? you're a punk.

I think that post speaks for itself, and dude is going out of his way to be an asshole, especially some of his comments in other threads. He's getting what's coming to him- he said it himself, he's here for no other reason to shit on a movie that a lot of people obviously liked. It's the worst possible use of a message board.

[JamesW]

You guys honestly think he was not goaded whatsoever?

[Darth Jaundi]

Dude...You've said goodbye twice now. Stop teasing us and actually leave. Pretty please?

Umm, when did I say goodbye? You're not one of those people that misunderstand everything and then post random thoughts are you?

I said "later losers" (implying a return) and
"that's all I'm going to say on the matter" (conceding that the argument was pointless).

Where did you get "goodbye" out of any of that?

Oh, explain why Grievious has a chronic cough when the only organ he has left is his heart? You know, his heart that was conviently two tin sheets from being completely exposed? I don't want to hear any crap about that it is just foreshadowing Vader's breathing problem.

[Denyse]

You guys honestly think he was not goaded whatsoever?

Was he goaded? Sure he was. We've all been goaded into some argument while here. The test is whether we handle ourselves with decorum and eventually agree to disagree. When it turns to a name calling war, such as his statement (and I'm quoting here, so don't jump on my shit) that RB was a "Broken record, you're boring me. That wasn't my opinion. Your behaviour and argument is enough for me to state a fact that you are truly an idiot." are uncalled for. It's time to stop the madness. If "ganging" up on him is the only way to do it, then I say, pile on, brother. No this board is not just for 10-12 people, but we old timers have developed long term relationships with members of this board, and if somebody starts a schoolyard style bitch fight with someone they know nothing about, we get a little protective of our turf. Is RB faultless in all this? Hell no. But people who come here and get to know the lay of the land would recognize his MO and if they are smart, they steer clear of subjects that would inflame. There are plenty of newbies here (and you know who you are) that haven't had to deal with this type of shit, because you were considerate enough to state opinions clearly, accept that others might have differing opinions and not resort to calling names. This guy clearly wants a fight. He told us to bring it on. We obliged him.

That's all I have to say about that. I'm going back to the dirty things thread where I will stay until there is worl (or at least Board) peace.

[Razorback]

Keep gushing about Episode 3, it just reminds me that you have no idea what you're talking about.

No one can take you seriously when you consider someone elses differing opinion about art to mean that they don't know what they are talking about. I don't think you grasp the idea that art is subjective.

The characters were cartoon-like and the performances laughable.

Nope, I feel it was just the opposite. The characters were solid and in keeping with the Star Wars style. The performances were wooden at times but mostly excellent.

Thw plot was weak

Nope. I felt the plot was probably one of the best in the saga, right there with Empire. It had a hero who turns to evil, a leader who reveals himself to be the great evil the good guys have been looking for, and the extermination of an entire order. If that is a weak plot then I can't wait for you to tell me what is a strong one.

greivous of no consequence (created to sell toys) the lightsaber duels badly shot and presented.

Grievous was a major part of the story. He allowed Palpatine (who always knew that the Jedi would choose Obi-Wan for the mission to get him once he recommended Anakin) to seperate Kenobi from Anakin... which allowed him to manipulate the young Jedi to join him.

The camera is never where the audience wants to be. Either too close or completely too far away.

That makes no sense and yet again represents your absolutist bullshit. You have no idea where the audience wants to be and yet you think you speak for everyone. I don't even know of a single moment where the camera is in the wrong place.

The editing was a mess, not letting the audience enjoy anything for more than 20 seconds before cutting to another empty scene.

Are you sure you actually like the originals? You know, the editing was very similar. Fast editing is how Lucas has usually done it. Though, in this movie there are more than a few scenes where the camera stays on the characters for a while. You might want to watch the movie again. You obviously saw it once.

A badly presented film with no moments to make you believe that this was a long time ago in a galaxy far far away. Looked like it took place in a hollywood basement and created by a toy company. the "fantasy" part of this movie was that it was good to begin with.

Can't agree there. Though, it is hard to agree with absolute statements about a subjective thing where the person speaking makes broad statements without really giving any comparisons or reasons behind them. I suspect that is because you are not capable of original thought and instead are just reciting what you have heard someone else say.

I am more than ready to beat you stupid with a point by point argument of every scene in the movie. You start.

[Darth Jaundi]

That's all I have to say about that. I'm going back to the dirty things thread where I will stay until there is worl (or at least Board) peace.

Let us all bow our heads and pray for worl peace.

[Denyse]

Out of that whole post, the only thing you picked up on was the ONE word I misspelled? My point is made.

[Razorback]

Was he goaded? Sure he was.

Show me where I goaded him. Don't just say I did it, quote me. He made mention of his apparent dislike for the PT and the SE's in another thread and I didn't say anything to him about it. It wasn't until he started dictating the terms of reality that I slapped his ass.

Is RB faultless in all this?

No but for anyone to act as if this twit deserved any better... that is funny and makes me wonder about how impartial that person may be when it comes to me and anyone else.

[Denyse]

Show me where I goaded him.
Dude...Did I say "RB goaded him"? No. I said he was goaded. Period.

No but for anyone to act as if this twit deserved any better... that is funny and makes me wonder about how impartial that person may be when it comes to me and anyone else.

I agree. He didn't deserve better. Which is why you'll find me in the pile with the rest of the flamers in this thread. Duh. Relax...and may the force be with you.;)

[Darth Jaundi]

Are you actually trying to say that you are without fault, your opinions are never wrong and you always prove it no matter how you twist quotes made by others. This is a weak tactic, how long have you been using it? Not one person here can't do the same. It's too easy and cheapens your own thoughts when they are solely based on the opinions of others.

[Denyse]

I will always admit when I've crossed the line. I've done it a few times in the last 3 years, something everyone here could attest to. I haven't said that you aren't entitled to your opinion. You are not, however entitled to call people names for disagreeing with your opinion.

[Darth Jaundi]

Dude...Did I say "RB goaded him"? No. I said he was goaded. Period.



I agree. He didn't deserve better. Which is why you'll find me in the pile with the rest of the flamers in this thread. Duh. Relax...and may the force be with you.;)


Look at yourselves, even fighting with each other, pathetic. You realize that it's just a movie right? Stop glorifying it like it's the second coming of Christ. Its' sole purpose was to take your money, entertaining you or actually being good was low on order of priorities."lets cram in as much pointless crap as possible" The prequels had such a Seinfeld like tie into the characters that I was expecting Han Solo chillin with Chewie.

[Efexeye]

That's a little glib- you could say about any movie that the only reason it was made was to make money. Isn't that kind of a given?

[Darth Jaundi]

I will always admit when I've crossed the line. I've done it a few times in the last 3 years, something everyone here could attest to. I haven't said that you aren't entitled to your opinion. You are not, however entitled to call people names for disagreeing with your opinion.

Really? Then why did RB start the whole name calling thing in the first place. I'n too lazy to seach back but it had to do with me being stupid. But that's okay, only newbies can't call people names.

[Darth Jaundi]

That's a little glib- you could say about any movie that the only reason it was made was to make money. Isn't that kind of a given?

Are you always prone to reading half of someones point then commenting on it? All movies are made to make money, Unfortunately it was ROTS sole motivation. Very sad. Feel free to misinterpret this post as well.

[Denyse]

See, that's what I mean about learning a little about us before you judge.
But that's okay, only newbies can't call people names.
Not true. I actually gave quite a bit of shit to a regular poster, long in good standing, that recently turned into a prick and kept name calling. Some of the other posters agreed and gave him a much deserved ration as well. If you took the time to get to know us, you'd find that it's the discord I hate, not the actual person posting.

[Efexeye]

Are you always prone to reading half of someones point then commenting on it? All movies are made to make money, Unfortunately it was ROTS sole motivation. Very sad. Feel free to misinterpret this post as well.

Uh, sorry, man, that I choose NOT to comment about the part of the post where you ripped on a lot of people that I care about...including, uh, my WIFE (but you wouldn't know that because you just dove in and started shit without reading up on anyone), however, I would like to say that your posts seem to be getting progressively less and less coherent- perhaps it's time to put down the bong?

[JamesW]

Look at yourselves, even fighting with each other, pathetic. You realize that it's just a movie right? Stop glorifying it like it's the second coming of Christ. Its' sole purpose was to take your money, entertaining you or actually being good was low on order of priorities."lets cram in as much pointless crap as possible" The prequels had such a Seinfeld like tie into the characters that I was expecting Han Solo chillin with Chewie.

Devil's advocate? Fuck that, you guys win. I call douchebag.

[slizzelizzel]

Oh, explain why Grievious has a chronic cough when the only organ he has left is his heart?

How do you know he has a heart? All you see is a few blobs of what he used to be, and his eyes. If you had seen the Clone Wars cartoon on CN, which I'm assuming you havn't, then you would know the story behind him. Seeing how he is an alien, he probably doesn't even have lungs, but in order for GL to show that he was sickly, he made him cough. How else do you show that a dude in a robotic body is sick?


I don't want to hear any crap about that it is just foreshadowing Vader's breathing problem.

You won't. Mainly because that makes absolutely no sense. At all. Vader had no breathing problem, as long as his mask was on.

[Darth Jaundi]

By the way, shouldn't you be crying like a bitch about this latest movie on TheForce.Net instead of coming here? I am sure there are dozens of threads just waiting to be created there about how much Lucas raped your asshood.

The very first post in which he responded to me expressing MY opinion not Fact. This however, Didn't matter. Everyone must agree with him or he acts like a little immature dick. I felt it was only fair to greet this douchebag with the same behaviour. Do some research before you base your opinions on anyone.

[Efexeye]

Do some research before you base your opinions on anyone.

Hello, Darth Jaundi?

This is Pot calling.

YOU'RE BLACK!

[Gotherella]

How do you know he has a heart? All you see is a few blobs of what he used to be, and his eyes.

I thought I saw a heart, right before Obi-Wan blowed him up...anyone else, or was I hallucinating?

[Denyse]

You got me there...I thought there was a heart and lungs, too.

[slizzelizzel]

Maybe there was one there, but I only got a quick glimpse at it, I was too interested in the story and action to pay a lot of attention to effects the first time I saw it. I definately need to go see it a few more times.

[ratm1966]

It was so quick that I actually thought it was a small creature, kind of like with the character in Men In Black.

[Darth Jaundi]

How do you know he has a heart?

I'm no Doctor but seeing a organ pumping like a Heart, I'm going tp go out on a limb and assume it's a Heart. As for the Expanded Universe of Clone Wars explaination, give me a break. I shouldn't have to fill in any blanks for a major character in the movies by watching a cartoon. Half-assed storytelling.


Vader had no breathing problem, as long as his mask was on.

What? Go to StarWars.com and look at some of the video logs. You'll come across one for G.G. and yeah I think, something is mentioned by his creator about why he has a cough. I could be wrong, go check it out.

[slizzelizzel]

I'm no Doctor but seeing a organ pumping like a Heart, I'm going tp go out on a limb and assume it's a Heart. As for the Expanded Universe of Clone Wars explaination, give me a break. I shouldn't have to fill in any blanks for a major character in the movies by watching a cartoon. Half-assed storytelling.

You're not making much sense. You seem to be a die hard Star Wars fan, but bitch about all the things that non-Star Wars fans bitch about. The real fans have problems with specific parts of the story, like the Death Star not being researched and designed by Admiral Dalla and Grand Moff Tarkin, not wooden acting, which has been present in all of the SW movies. If you're not going to take the time to learn about why a charachter is the way he is, then quit bitching about him. There was no way that Lucas could have added in teh GG creation story to the movie, as it really isn't important in the grand scheme of things.


What? Go to StarWars.com and look at some of the video logs. You'll come across one for G.G. and yeah I think, something is mentioned by his creator about why he has a cough. I could be wrong, go check it out.

How about you go there, find a link, and bring it back here. I could be searching starwars.com for days and not find anything. It's a huge site.

[actualsize]

You got me there...I thought there was a heart and lungs, too.That's what I thought. It was even more distinct on the second viewing. I was a bit lost the first time, since I had not seen all of the Clone Wars cartoon. I don't think it should be necessary to be a customer/fan of the expanded universe to "get" the movie. And after the first viewing, I didn't get why he was coughing. I dared not say anything here though, so as to avoid coming off as a dumb noob. I shouldn't have to think that way though.

[Darth Jaundi]

Here you go..

http://www.starwars.com/episode-iii/bts/me3/4.html

It's just mainly the creation of the character, If you're a Hyperdrive member ( lucas wants ALL your money) there's a new Documentary on G.G. on the site and extemely easy to find.

Alittle article about why G.G really has a cough...

http://www.ew.com/ew/report/0,6115,1060030-4-5_1||221800|1_,00.html

[slizzelizzel]

That may be why he has a cough, but it explained perfectly well why he was the way he was in the Clone Wars cartoon. Maybe people don't like it, but hey, that's what we've got. Deal with it.

[Darth Jaundi]

That may be why he has a cough, but it explained perfectly well why he was the way he was in the Clone Wars cartoon. Maybe people don't like it, but hey, that's what we've got. Deal with it.

I am dealing with it, it was poorly done. There, dealt with.

[JK]

As for the Expanded Universe of Clone Wars explaination, give me a break. I shouldn't have to fill in any blanks for a major character in the movies by watching a cartoon. Half-assed storytelling.



Actually, that "Expanded Universe of Clone Wars" is considered by Lucas to be an integral part of the story arc he created.

[Azraelle]

Wow, some thread. Okay, I'm not that huge of a Star Wars fan, no matter what my son says. Indeed, my newfound liking of Star Wars has even been labeled as condescending, but... I have to say, it was Sith that finally pulled me completely in. Most of what Razor said about why he liked the movie, described oh so perfectly the reasons why I liked it. But then, I've always been fascinated with how a person can be manipulated into changing his nature... especially when it has to do with crossing over to the dark side. Were there some things in the movie I didn't get? Sure. Did they completely destroy my appreciation or even my understanding of the movie? Sorry but no they didn't. All I had to do was remember what puzzled me and take it to my friends who are better fans than I for clarification... which they were kind enough to provide with a minimum of mockery. Will I see the movie again? Oh, yeah. And again, and again and again, ad nauseum. And for the record, IMO, this movie has the makings of a classic, namely, the type of film that you can watch over and over and always get something new out of it.

[Darth Jaundi]

Actually, that "Expanded Universe of Clone Wars" is considered by Lucas to be an integral part of the story arc he created.

And is in no way represented in the "movie", which is all that really matters.

Edited to include quote.

[Razorback]

How do you know he has a heart? All you see is a few blobs of what he used to be, and his eyes. If you had seen the Clone Wars cartoon on CN, which I'm assuming you havn't, then you would know the story behind him. Seeing how he is an alien, he probably doesn't even have lungs, but in order for GL to show that he was sickly, he made him cough. How else do you show that a dude in a robotic body is sick?

Word. Grievous has more than just a heart. That is why he coughs. As for why he coughs, well that was explained in the Clone Wars season 2, though the reason he was made to cough was actually to show that he is decaying on the inside and that his organs would fail without the machine parts. He is still a living organism.... he needs blood, a brain, and lungs. Kenobi exposes a portion of the area that houses his organs and sits in some kind of flammable fluid (I am sure what that fluid is can be found somewhere but I don't know exactly what it is).

[slizzelizzel]

And is in no way represented in the "movie", which is all that really matters.


Completely wrong. Maybe that's all that matters to you, but you won't find many true fans that only like the movies themselves.

[Razorback]

Completely wrong. Maybe that's all that matters to you, but you won't find many true fans that only like the movies themselves.

It of course doesn't matter to him because he only wants to deal in things that will somehow help skew his argument in the negative direction. He is never going to give in because, as he said, he is here to not agree with this position. He hates the movie and no logical explanation will change that.

What reveals his trolliness is that he isn't here to argue for the sake of clarification but for the sake of trying to dig more into his negativity. That always makes me wonder... why are you still posting about a movie you hate? We got it, you hate it. Fangirl didn't like the movie either, is she posting about it? Am I posting about whatever movie I hated? What is the point unless you need clarification? Hell, I loved the movie and I haven't even created a thread about how much I loved it or why... and wasn't planning on giving a "review" until you asked me to explain what I liked (which I did and then you ignored it as I knew you would).

[slizzelizzel]

Yeah, his bashing needs to stop. Anyone can tell you that before Ep. III came out, I was the opposite of a fan of the first two prequels. After seeing Ep. III, though, all the issues I had with it were resolved, and it has made me love not only the other two prequels, but the OT even more as well. I can't wait to go to the theater to see it again, and I hope I'll see that I was wrong about all the things I didn't like about it initially.

[Azraelle]

Most of the things I didn't like in Sith was because I didn't understand them. Rather than senselessly bash the film, I chose to find the information I needed. It seemed like a wiser course of action, somehow.

[Razorback]

Yeah, his bashing needs to stop. Anyone can tell you that before Ep. III came out, I was the opposite of a fan of the first two prequels. After seeing Ep. III, though, all teh issues I had with it were resolved, and it has made me love not only the other two prequels, but the OT even more as well. I can't wait to go to the theater to see it again, and I hope I'll see that I was wrong about all the things I didn't like about it initially.

I have a handful of friends who went into the Episode 3 having hated the last two and having no real expectation of loving this one... and they loved it. They also don't read Star Wars boards and have no clue what is the "cool hate of the month" towards Star Wars, so when I mentioned the Vader scream not a one of them knew what I was talking about.

Now, I am sure that the scream is awful to some and I can even see how people might dislike it... but not enough to ruin the movie. Then again, it is something of a sport to bash Star Wars/Lucas and some don't want to let go of it.

Anyway, like you, some of my friends walked out of that movie with a huge smile because it had achieved the experience they expected from the last two. It would seem that most people had the same experience, including most critics. So, I can't say that I am worried about negative comments because this movie has actually been better reviewed than four out of the other five movies in the saga (in their initial run).

If we were to score them based on positive to negative comments... ANH received around 84% positive reviews. ESB received around 68% positive reviews and ROTJ 35% (give or take). When the special editions were reviewed (which is something of a scam) in 1997 the overall critical ratings were adjusted (mind you, that nearly 100% of the 1997 reviews were positive) and changed the overall critical ratings picture.

So I hope they do the same to the prequels in 2017. ;)

Right now, if you follow Rottentomatoes.com, ROTS has an 83% approval rating from critics... 73% from the "Cream of the Crop" critics, which would probably be a more reliable example with which to compare the originals. That makes it the second best critically reviewed movie of the saga (based on release reviews). Not that critical, fan, or general public acceptance means anything... oh wait, I guess it does mean something as that is what built up the originals. ;)

Also, it should be noted that AICN (well known for some of the biggest Star Wars bashers on the Net in their talkback section) has a poll right now about the most satisfying Star Wars experience and ROTS is second to ESB. So, no matter what a handful of bashers might say, we know... or as Palpatine says to Anakin, "You knowwwww." :D

I love Ian McDiarmid.

[slizzelizzel]

Yeah, I will definatley say that McDiarmid was my favorite actor in this movie, it seemed as though he had the deepest charachter to portray. And as for the Noooooooo, well, I was pissed initially. But, after seeing ESB again, Luke's 'Noooooo' is way, way goofier. Especially with his facial expressions.

[Darth Jaundi]

Of course I ignored you, why wouldn't I?
You helped turn a discussion into argument.I have a whole lot of things to say to you, but this is boring for me, boring for others. You just couldn't let it go. You're calling me a troll? Total RazorBack Posts: 7,586 . Need I say more? Show some restraint, show me that you don't have to respond to everything. This board is your life and it's sad.

[slizzelizzel]

**Bashes head into the wall repeatedly**

**looks back at computer screen to see if DJ is actually still arguing**

**Continues to bash head into wall**

[Darth Jaundi]

Bash away. how old are you,10?

[Azraelle]

Of course I ignored you, why wouldn't I?
You helped turn a discussion into argument.I have a whole lot of things to say to you, but this is boring for me, boring for others.

If it's so boring, why don't you stop already? Sheesh.

You just couldn't let it go.

HE couldn't let it go? LOL But you're the one who keeps responding to him! Over and over and over and over.

You're calling me a troll? Total RazorBack Posts: 7,586 .

Yeah but most of his posts make sense... *shrug*

***slizzelizzel, honey, that looks painful!***

Need I say more?

I'm sure many will agree with me when I say, "NO YOU DON'T!"

Show some restraint, show me that you don't have to respond to everything.

Lead by example, sweet pea, lead by example.

[Darth Jaundi]

More Ep III Discussion, less personal attacks.
Is anyone here mature enough to do that?
I doubt it.

[slizzelizzel]

You still don't seem to be able to tell the difference between Ep. III discussion and openly bashing the movie without accepting that maybe your thoughts were wrong. Give me specifics from the movie that made you hate it, along with explanations, and maybe we can have a discussion here. But for you to come here and accuse us of being the attackers is crap, you have brought all the attacks on yourself, it's not like everyone just ganged up on you.

As for the reasons you don't like it, don't give me any 'crappy acting' or 'cartoony charachters' crap. I want to see hard evidence to back up your claim that the movie sucks.

[Azraelle]

More Ep III Discussion, less personal attacks.


Right after you, sweetheart.

Is anyone here mature enough to do that?

You mean besides you? :rolleyes:

[Razorback]

Of course I ignored you, why wouldn't I?
You helped turn a discussion into argument.

Well, it takes two to argue. You would know that if you had half of a brain.

I have a whole lot of things to say to you, but this is boring for me

That is what everyone says when they know they really have nothing to say.

boring for others

So now you care what others think? Ahhh, the smell of defeat.

You just couldn't let it go

Couldn't let what go? You speak in vague terms at every turn... why is that? Is it because you actually have no idea what you are saying?

You're calling me a troll? Total RazorBack Posts: 7,586

Yep, over two years. There are people on View Askew that have 20,000 and nearly 30,000 postings in one year. So are we trolls? No, we are contributors.

Need I say more? Show some restraint

Why? Is there some rule about posting in a forum 7,000 plus times in two years?

show me that you don't have to respond to everything

I ask again, why?

This board is your life and it's sad.

It really is... I can't stop! Help me!

[slizzelizzel]

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/slizzelizzel/mpsss.bmp

:rolleyes:Heheheeh:rolleyes:

[Darth Jaundi]

What was your favorite moment in Ep 3?

also to represent both sides.

What was your worst moment in Ep 3?

Favorite: When Obi Wan looks down at Anakin from the doorway of Padames shuttle. He had this father-like feel to his body language. Almost saying " I'm very disappointed with you, now go to your room" further echoing the Jedi Councils threatment towards Skywalker.

Worst: The hilarious scene in which the Emperor turns Skywalker into Vader finally convincing him to join the darkside.The noises and Facial expressions were very funny. In a bad way.

[slizzelizzel]

Care to explain why that scene was so bad? What about it was so badly funny? I ask this to get a better understanding of why you didn't like the movie as a whole. Also, what would you have done to make it better?

[Darth Jaundi]

Care to explain why that scene was so bad? What about it was so badly funny? I ask this to get a better understanding of why you didn't like the movie as a whole. Also, what would you have done to make it better?

I don't feel like repeating myself so read my post again, So you don't want to share Your favorite / worst scene with me?
Why dwell on only the negative?
This post was a attempt to get this thread back going in a right direction, shall we?

[slizzelizzel]

No. I'm trying to 'discuss' with you why you think that scene in particular was bad, which is one purpose of this thread.

But fine, if you want me to list my most and least favorite before we can discuss, then I guess I can do that.

Favorite: All scenes and dialogue that have to do with Anakin succombing to the Dark Side. (Yeah, I know that that's basically the whole movie. But that's my favorite part)

Least Favorite: The battles with Dooku and Grievous were too short.

[Darth Jaundi]

Care to explain why that scene was so bad? What about it was so badly funny? I ask this to get a better understanding of why you didn't like the movie as a whole. Also, what would you have done to make it better?

I'll explain it to you why I felt it was the worst scene.
For what should of been the best ,dramatic scene in the film was ruined by the Emperor. The Bad and over the top acting ruined the seriousness of the scene. This is moment where the whole Saga fate rests upon.

The ball was dropped so hard that it crushed my foot. Instead of being drawn into the story by the emperor (like he did so well in ROTJ) He decided to make the Emp look like a fool. Making Silly faces and letting out silly pervy noises. That in itself completely took me out of the film. It took me out of the film at a crucial part in the series. If you don't believe in this scene than the rest is just unbelievable.

What would of I done to make it better? nothing. The OT was fine enough with me. For everything that was good about the prequels, everyone can name 100 things bad about them.

[slizzelizzel]

I can't. I'm sure you can't. In fact, I'd like to see you try. Name 100 things that were bad. About anything in ep III.

Also, if you think that McDiarmids acting was bad, I don't know what I can say to you. I guess we just have a totally different perception of good and bad. (And by we I mean everyone but you.)

[Razorback]

I'll explain it to you why I felt it was the worst scene.
For what should of been the best ,dramatic scene in the film was ruined by the Emperor. The Bad and over the top acting ruined the seriousness of the scene. This is moment where the whole Saga fate rests upon.

First of all, the scene works perfectly well. Palpatine is transforming right before our eyes. He is changing from the mask to the man (as the book says). There is nothing over the top about the scene. If you want to point out an actually over the top moment it is when Palpatine screams "No! No!" and whatever else, at Mace. That is over the top.

The ball was dropped so hard that it crushed my foot. Instead of being drawn into the story by the emperor (like he did so well in ROTJ) He decided to make the Emp look like a fool.

Not remotely. There is nothing foolish about it. I have no idea where you heard someone say this and then decided to adobt it as your explanation. It is clear that you don't actually formulate your own opinions (based on what you have said here and just said to me in a private message).

Making Silly faces and letting out silly pervy noises. That in itself completely took me out of the film. It took me out of the film at a crucial part in the series. If you don't believe in this scene than the rest is just unbelievable.

Pervy noises? Silly faces? Oh how I would love to have a bizarro time machine just to see what you would say about him in ROTJ. It sounds like you wanted to dislike it. I didn't for a second have a problem with it. In fact, I found myself loving the unexpected transformation in his voice.

What would of I done to make it better? nothing. The OT was fine enough with me. For everything that was good about the prequels, everyone can name 100 things bad about them.

There goes our favorite little absolutist throwing around his bullshit again. You are a fucktard and everyone knows it (see, I can do it too... just state an absolute as if it is true). You have low IQ and sleep with your mom. It is true and everyone agrees!

The OT has just as many problems as the PT. Some of you just make an effort to not see it. However, I love all the movies because I look past the problems and at the positives. It is like loving someone who gains weight, or loses weight, over time. You don't stop loving them because they change. You love them because they change. Except that the movies don't give handjobs.

[Darth Jaundi]

1. Grievous was a throwaway charcter. When he was killed, no one cared he just a driod to most of the audience.
2. The Emporers performance was too Campy and wrong for the Scenes. What the hell the ruler of the galaxy acting like the Joker?
3. Grievous vital organs are way too easily exploited. Reminded me of a Zelda ememy boss. "attack the glowing weak spot"
4. Padme is given nothing to do than chill in the apartment and look fat and weak.
5. The darkside and lightside seem to have no advantages, it all boils down to who has the "higher ground" I was hoping for something mythical not lame tactics.
6. The above mentioned advantage for one duel (vader vs. kenobi) was only two friggin feet. highground, laughable.
7. Obi wan didn't mind against high ground when deuling Darth Maul, but now it's all of a sudden certain death.
8. Darth Vader helped the Empire hunt down and kill the jedi knights. yeah, younglings. That's it! The friggin Clones did all the real jedi killing.
9. Chewbacca, just there to say...."hey look!, it's Chewbacca!"
10. Yoda is a Punk, he gave up way too easily. Mace had no problem taking out the Emp. until Anakin suckered him.
11. The space battles were nothing more than a ILM tech demo,
12. that lizard thing obi wan was riding around on was pointless.
13. How many Jedi Robes does Obi Wan take with him on adventures. On one planet alone he takes it off twice.
14. R2D2 proves yet again that a trashcan can out act his human co-stars.
15. The emperor renames the Republic the Empire and people love it? Can they not see that he looks completely evil?
16. How come Padme and Bail Organa the ONLY smart people in the senate?
17. Everytime a new driod comes on screen a character yells it's name. Remember kids ask for the toy by name.
18. Jar Jar is nowhere to found.(except for 2 seconds) For someone who was so friggin important in Episode 1, he sure didn't prove his inclusion in the series.
19. You knew Count Dooku was dead as soon as he walked in the room. Snore
20. Obi wan is throw across a room and a very heavy looking metal slate falls and crushes his legs. Moments later in the film, his legs are just A-OKay!
21. Anakin lands a huge ass space ship that is cut in half! fuck right off.
22. Yoda's backwards speak resulted in "what the hell did he say?" when confronting the Emp.
23. More to add on yoda's backwards crap, For a device used to show Yoda's wisdom he sure didn't sound too wise, he sounded drunk."off the to store go I must"
24. How could I forget " NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!" no excuse.
25. R2D2 sure likes that jet back. To bad, he somehow loses that ability.

I'll be back with part 2...

[Darth Jaundi]

This goes to RB...you are officially ignored. You don't want to discuss anything, you just want to fight. You're pathetic. misquote me again. It's your favorite tactic and it shows what an ass you are.

[psychofiend]

This goes to RB...you are officially ignored. You don't want to discuss anything, you just want to fight. You're pathetic. misquote me again. It's your favorite tactic and it shows what an ass you are.
I really don't think he cares.

[Darth Jaundi]

He just wants to fight, well he can go on doing what he loves. Trying to prove himself right until he's blue in the face. I'm just not going to pay attention to him, that's all he really wants to begin with.

[JK]

And is in no way represented in the "movie", which is all that really matters.

Edited to include quote.


No, you're wrong-

Two reasons, off the top of my head:

1) the reason Grievous has difficulty breathing- explained in the Clone Wars.
2) the reason, the how, and the why there is a battle taking place in the skies over Coruscant and just what exactly General Grievous has to with it- explained in the Clone Wars

I know there is a lot more, but I just got home from work and I'm too tired to get into a pissing contest over a cartoon.

Speaking of work, I'm sure my coworkers would appreciate that to you The Clones Wars doesn't matter.

(Actually, I'm pretty sure they could give a flying fuck...)


I'm starting to wonder why I got upset over people jumping your shit when you first got here...

[slizzelizzel]

1. Grievous was a throwaway charcter. When he was killed, no one cared he just a driod to most of the audience.


No one? Most of the audience? How many people, exactly, did you talk to before you generalized everyone that saw the movie?


2. The Emporers performance was too Campy and wrong for the Scenes. What the hell the ruler of the galaxy acting like the Joker?


Should read: I didn't like the Emporer's performance. I thought it was too campy. In my opinion, the ruler of the galaxy wouldn't act like the Joker. (Though I didn't really see any jokes that he made...care to explain why he was the joker?)


3. Grievous vital organs are way too easily exploited. Reminded me of a Zelda ememy boss. "attack the glowing weak spot"


Yeah, I'm sure Lucas is kicking himself for not checking in with you for all of your knowledge. How about this: If Grievous's vitals hadn't been so exposed, the battle wouldn't have ended the way it did, which means the movie wouldn't have ended the way it did. Which means the OT wouldn't make sense.


4. Padme is given nothing to do than chill in the apartment and look fat and weak.


I agree, they could have shown her painting the spare room to get ready for the baby. :rolleyes:


I'm not going to respond to all of these 'problems' you have with III, seeing how none of them make any sense. Since you hate it so much, stop posting about it and go venture into other parts of this board. I'm sure you will find something that you like.

[Darth Jaundi]

I'm starting to wonder why I got upset over people jumping your shit when you first got here...

Mob mentality.

[slizzelizzel]

Ehehehe. Nice. He said that he thinks he was wrong to get upset at the people who...oh...nevermind. You're not gonna get it anyway. :rolleyes:

[JK]

Mob mentality.

Now I'm wondering why I even bothered to contribute to this steaming mass...

[slizzelizzel]

Ahh, sweet silence. I never though I could get annoyed enough at someone to use the Ignore list, but alas, the day has come. Goodbye, Darth Jaundice, the time we spent together was sweet.

[Darth Jaundi]

I'm not going to respond to all of these 'problems' you have with III, seeing how none of them make any sense. Since you hate it so much, stop posting about it and go venture into other parts of this board. I'm sure you will find something that you like.

None of them make sense? Do I need to explain it clearer with pictures? How smart are you, if you can't follow a simple list.

Go back and watch the movie again...all of these problems I have discussed with co-workers and friends. Overall opinions are the same. You asked me and even dared me to list 100 problems I had with Sith, you asked for it. Then complain when you receive it. You're easily confused.

[slizzelizzel]

Did someone say something?

Nevermind...must have been the wind...;)

[Darth Jaundi]

I can't. I'm sure you can't. In fact, I'd like to see you try. Name 100 things that were bad. About anything in ep III.

Also, if you think that McDiarmids acting was bad, I don't know what I can say to you. I guess we just have a totally different perception of good and bad. (And by we I mean everyone but you.)


Speaking for everyone I see. Continue to complain about when I use broad generalizations.

[slizzelizzel]

Man, the wind sure is going crazy today!

[actualsize]

Now I'm wondering why I even bothered to contribute to this steaming mass...

Yeah, me too. DJ, I felt sorry for you at first. But it's just too fucking much, man. You came into this thread with a fairly intelligent and even heartwarming post:

Alright, I have a couple of things to say but I'll be brief.

I'm 29 years old, as a child I was raised on Star Wars. I loved the movies, the comic books, everything. I can still remember drinking from my ROTJ Dixie cups right before I cuddled in under my Star Wars bed sheets. Kept company by the warm glow of my R2D2 nightlight, as I slowly slipping into a deep sleep occupied by a galaxy far far away.

Flash forward, My newfew (crazy enough named Luke) took an interest in Star wars: episode 1, He loved it, I recognized that same look, that awe that I once felt as a kid. The OT did not matter to him. This was HIS Star Wars. His generations turn to have their imaginations explored. Episode 2 came along, Blew the doors off this kid. He was jumping around the house with his lightsaber driving my sister nuts. That joy that these movies brought to him. Here we are now episode 3.

I took him last friday, He was on top of the world. In his mind, he was a jedi. Now after viewing EP 1 to 3. I gave him a wonderful gift. The OT DVD. This was his first experience with it. He watched as though he was watching a foreign film. The pacing too slow, not enough colorful scenery for Cartoon Characters to watch bouncing all over the screen. He was bored to tears

Then I came to a scarey conclusion. The movies are made for a different generation. That there is a huge generation gap between the both. I was disappointed by the prequels and he was diappointed by the originals. The circle is now complete but it is broken.

But now, by the fact that you continue to turn up the heat, evidenced by the 15 or 20 point list you posted, it seems that you are simply enjoying this fight with the regulars. It's not fun for the rest of us. We get it, you didn't like the movie. That's fine. But we are no longer covering any new ground here.

[Dave]

Ignoring the moron, earlier you guys were talking about Battlestar Galactica, i could have sworn i saw some Colonial Vipers in the skies over Coruscant. Was i seeing things, did the animators hide some easter eggs like that in the battle scenes?

[DarthMaulRat]

I can't confirm this yet, but my friends told me that there is a Millenium falcon that flys off the screen during a transition (you know, the classic star wars wipe).

And I'm not entirely sure, but the one scene is which there are asteroids outside a window, I was almost positive that one of the asteroids was a rock version of the Dragon skeleton that you see half buried in Ep. IV.

[ratm1966]

You're calling me a troll? Total RazorBack Posts: 7,586 . Need I say more?
I've intentionally stayed out of this as much as possible, because arguments over the internet just seem so futile to me. It isn't as if anything is really going to be accomplished.

However, before you go doggin' a guy out for a post count, you oughta try looking at how long that guy has been here and at a little feature called 'Average Daily Post Count'. RBs average is only sitting at 9.64 posts per day, because he has been here since the board started. While yours is at 44.42 posts per day. At the rate you are going, in just one year, you will have 16,213.3 posts.

Need I say more?

[RobinHoodDaffy]

Dammit! I liked this thread, we looked forward to this flick for a year together as a group and now this Ass-Monkey has to come in here and fuck up the whole discussion. Ass-Monkey, I ignore you, and will now say what I had to say before I noticed your foul stench being on (the) board.
_______________________________________________

Saw ROTS a second time, and thought it flowed better a second time than the first. I was done trying to see the story I made in my head, and was able to see the story as it unfolded. I think the first twenty minutes of the film are among the best frames shot for any of the films. I thought the storylines snagged together nicely. In fact, I can say that the only two things that happen during the film that pull me out a little are two lines. The "hold me" line from Padme is a little akward, but delivered well, I just think it could use a little more polish. I know that young love is often expressed in cliche, but I don't think that Madam Portman felt that line was something that she could say and I think she had a little problem with it. The other line was just a matter of American slang that felt out of place, again, the actor does a fine job but, the Yoda line "Not if have anything to say about it I do". Not to bad, but in my humble opinoin a bit incongreous.
Still the film is a Twelve out of Ten in my book, hell a big film like this and all you really can have a beef about is two lousy lines, not bad indeed.

[Gotherella]

I've never been a Star Wars geek. Having grown up with the OT, and actually kind of liking the new episodes, I figured I'd like ROTS. I really enjoyed it as an action flick, as long as I tried to ignore the slower moments. But that's just me.

For my money, Clone Wars is the best of them all. Just watched it again last night. The scene where Anakin takes out the wanna-be Sith chick is the best illustration of his "turn" -- I would like to have seen something similar in ROTS. Clone Wars makes me laugh and kicks serious butt, which are pretty much my only two requirements in entertainment.

[JamesW]

I can't confirm this yet, but my friends told me that there is a Millenium falcon that flys off the screen during a transition (you know, the classic star wars wipe).


There is indeed a millenium falcon (or at least a ship of the same type as the falcon). In the part right after they land whats left of Grievous's space cruiser and they are in a transport which is docking at the senate building, you see a very small falcon heading to the senate building also.

[slizzelizzel]

Anyone else notice the Wilhelm scream in one of the hangar scenes? That was SWEET!

[JamesW]

Anyone else notice the Wilhelm scream in one of the hangar scenes? That was SWEET!

I could not help but notice it. An ubernerd behind me was like "Oh my god the wilhelm scream!!!!"

[slizzelizzel]

Hey, now. Be nice to us ubernerds! Also cool: opening scene when the clone pilot said "Lock S-Foils in attack position". Awesomeness.

[JamesW]

Hey, now. Be nice to us ubernerds!
I'm not gonna front, I myself am an ubernerd. I dont know about anybody else, but when yoda climbs up on chewie's back, I definitely got the fanboy goosebumps.

[FanGirl]

I think the proper term should be ubergeeks. The word nerd implies math skills.

[JamesW]

I think the proper term should be ubergeeks. The word nerd implies math skills.
Who says I dont have math skills?

[slizzelizzel]

Haha, yeah, when I saw the Camo trooper recieve Order 66, I leaned over to my friend and was like, "Holy shit! Chewie's gonna rescue Yoda!!" And then it happened. I'm wondering if that scene was CG, though. Chewie didn't seem the same as he was in other scenes...

[Gotherella]

Yeah, after that I thought, "Okay, now I gotta go look for the OT scenes with Chewie and Yoda."

[slizzelizzel]

There weren't any, were there? Yoda never leaves Dagobah (while he's alive).

[Efexeye]

That's one thing that irritated me a bit about the sequels- is it just me, or was EVERY Clone Trooper from the end of Ep. 2 on CGI? Even the ones where Jango Fett's head was uncovered? Why was THAT necessary?

Again, not bashing, just being a picker of nits...I guess it saved extra fees. Seems to me that hiring and costuming extras would be less expensive and less labor-intensive than creating CGI characters, but, hey, if I want to see that, I guess i'll make my own damn movie.

[JamesW]

That's one thing that irritated me a bit about the sequels- is it just me, or was EVERY Clone Trooper from the end of Ep. 2 on CGI? Even the ones where Jango Fett's head was uncovered? Why was THAT necessary?


In the episode 2 commentary, it is stated that there was never an actual clone trooper costume made. Whether or not this applies to ep 3, I dont know.

[slizzelizzel]

Yeah, there were absolutely zero stormtrooper props made for this movie, and even the ones you can buy from replica companies were made from the computer models that they used for the movie. The one scene in particular that this seemed really poorly done in was when Commander Cody took his helmet off to hand Obi-Wan his lightsaber and talk to him. The head seemed to bobble around on the CG body...it was strange...

Also a problem I have with that scene, why would he take his helmet off? He's basically an organic robot, he wouldn't have personal relations with non-clones. (Or clones for that matter. He should have kept it on.

[Efexeye]

[QUOTE]The head seemed to bobble around on the CG body

Yes it did- that was one of the few scenes where the CGI looked crappy to me. That, and when Obi-Wan takes Luke from the medical droid at the end. Can you say "traveling matte"?

[Dave]

would that be Uncle traveling Matte?

[JamesW]

Also a problem I have with that scene, why would he take his helmet off? He's basically an organic robot, he wouldn't have personal relations with non-clones. (Or clones for that matter. He should have kept it on.
I think there is something more to the story that was taken out of the movie (but was eluded to in the scene in the hangar when Obi-wan is about to head to Utapau). I think Obi-wan and cody are more friends and comrades than other jedi and their respective clone commanders.

[slizzelizzel]

That's the thing, the clones aren't programmed for friendship and comradeship, I got the feeling that something was missing, too, but I can accept the clones acting on Order 66 if they weren't able to think for themselves and make friends and such, but if they can, they would have had inner conflict when given Order 66.

[JK]

I was under the impression that Order 66 was genetically imprinted upon the clones and would over-ride any feelings they might have for their Jedi counterparts.

[Efexeye]

I was under the impression that Order 66 was genetically imprinted upon the clones and would over-ride any feelings they might have for their Jedi counterparts.

That is implied, but never made explicit- it bugged me a little, as it seems they could have explained it with one line of dialogue.

[JK]

I loaned out my copy of AOTC- I can't recall everything the Kaminoans said about how the clones were genetically altered to be loyal without question.

[slizzelizzel]

True...

Overall, though, the CG troopers were AMAZINGLY better in Ep. III than they were in Ep. II. The movements they made were much less fluid and more human-like. Also, I relaly like how the armor was like the 2nd generation, right in between Ep. II and the OT, plus all of the different types of troopers, especially the special ops, were totally sweet.

You couldn't really see it very well in the movie, but the clone Fighter Pilots helmets resemble a 1st generation that both the T.I.E. fighter pilot's helmets and the X-Wing pilot's helmets could have evolved from.

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/bingo275/marapril05/ClonePilot.jpg

[Darth Jaundi]

Just listen to Cody's voice as he's giving the command to fire at Obi wan. You can hear the conflict in his voice, out of all the clones,his voice had a different tone. Clones however, are disigned purely for war, of course he's going to execute the order but had no choice. Ask any veteran and they'll tell you that they followed orders that were against their beliefs. It's War.

[JK]

You couldn't really see it very well in the movie, but the clone Fighter Pilots helmets resemble a 1st generation that both the T.I.E. fighter pilot's helmets and the X-Wing pilot's helmets could have evolved from.




What I don't get is why the pilot's helmet is open-faced and yet he has a personal life support system strapped to his chest... What the hell good is that gonna do in the vacuum of space? Asthetically, it's pleasing and it does represent a transition from NT to OT, but it makes no sense on a practical level.


I feel I have graduated from Padawan Nit Picker to Master...

[JamesW]

If i had to say something bugged me as far as practicality goes....Why does the buzz droid fall behind Anakin's ship after its destroyed? In the vacuum of space there is no friction to reduce the momentum of a moving object. When i go to the movies, i suspend reality and enjoy.

[Efexeye]

If i had to say something bugged me as far as practicality goes....Why does the buzz droid fall behind Anakin's ship after its destroyed? In the vacuum of space there is no friction to reduce the momentum of a moving object. When i go to the movies, i suspend reality and enjoy.

Well, for that matter, none of the space battles should have ANY sound, strictly speaking. That whole "suspending reality" thing is something the haters of the prequels seem to be unable to do...

[Dave]

What I don't get is why the pilot's helmet is open-faced and yet he has a personal life support system strapped to his chest... What the hell good is that gonna do in the vacuum of space? Asthetically, it's pleasing and it does represent a transition from NT to OT, but it makes no sense on a practical level.


I feel I have graduated from Padawan Nit Picker to Master...

Perhaps there is an invisible force field that keeps the vacuum of space at bay?

[slizzelizzel]

Yeah, well they have laser swords, that's a bit hard to believe too. And all the sound in space, what is that? It should be completely silent, unless you're in a cockpit, then you have your headset and your engine noise. Most of Star Wars isn't believable, that's just how it goes...

As for the open faced helmets, makes no sense to me, either! I saw that and was like, yeah, that's cool, but it doesn't make much sense...

[JK]

Perhaps there is an invisible force field that keeps the vacuum of space at bay?


It's the Force...

[Darth Jaundi]

ellipsis much?

[Gotherella]

Also, I relaly like how the armor was like the 2nd generation, right in between Ep. II and the OT, plus all of the different types of troopers, especially the special ops, were totally sweet.


Okay, probably a stupid question, but here goes: Why do the special ops clone leaders (arc troopers I think they're called) in Clone Wars wear skirts? Isn't that impractical? Looks kinda cool, though.

[Denyse]

ellipsis much?

Gee, I don't know. Negative much?