Tactics in Episode IV

[ratm1966]

You know, since joining the military I have had a problem with Star Wars Episode IV. I don't know, but someone might have covered it somewhere before. Anyways, my problem with it is in the tactics the rebels used when attacking the Death Star.

Of course, you all know the part when the first 3-ship formation is cruising down the canyon in an attempt to get their missiles in the shaft (that sounded so 70' porn). Darth and his two wingmen fall in behind them and start blasting them to hell. After that, the second 3-ship goes at it and Darth and his buddies fall in behind them. My question is this.....Why in the fuck didn't Luke and his buddies even attempt to help the first 3-ship formation. Hell, they could have swooped in behind Vader and blew them all to hell.

Of course this never bothered me when I was a kid, but after serving 20 in the military, it just gets on my nerves that the first three were left hanging out to dry by their fellow rebels (Luke included).

[JK]

It bugged the hell out of me as well, even before I got in the military. And then when the special edition was released and there were a dozen more X-wings, where the fuck were they during the attack? Playing Tiddley Winks? I guess it lent to the drama and made it all the more poigniant (sp?) when Han came out of the sun and blew the crap out of Vader and his squad but I can only suspend reality so much.

[Matt1]

I think the answer to this is clear. The Rebellion was shit at tactics. I mean, really, you have to assume that in the interim between Episode III and IV ('bout 20 years I guess) the Rebels had been trying to defeat the Empire. Had they by the time A New Hope rolled around? Nope. They sucked. It wasn't until a young farm boy from Tatooine joined their ranks that the tide began to turn. Hell, their crappy plan to blow up the Death Star wouldn't of even worked if it hadn't been for him. All of their other pilots would've used their computer guidance systems to launch their missiles at the exhaust port, and FAILED. And what do you expect really? They were being run by some hippie lady in a white robe and a giant fish-man. Please.

It was not hubris that compelled Grand Moff Tarkin to stay on the Death (http://server4.103092804.com/Release3/linkredirect.php?h=42587,404550,1116225975) Star. He was just secure in the knowledge that the Rebel Alliance sucked ass.

[cberquist]

Maybe their unorthodox tactics and complete unpredictability are what helped them win. It could be something along the lines of why a seasoned poker player never wants to sit at a table with some rookie - because you can't count on them making the smart/right moves and can lose because of it.

[ratm1966]

Yeah, I am sure that everyone just hanging out and watching their buddies get slaughtered really through Vader off track. If it weren't for Han coming back, the rebels would have lost.

[cberquist]

Just imagine. If only George Lucas had spent 20 years in the military, he could have avoided falling into the trap of sacrificing intense tactical detail for the sake of drama.

[The Other Dude]

Well, yes, it's all fine and well that the Rebel Alliance had no military tactics whatsoever. If they had been more well organized tactically, the movie would have been about 20 minutes long.

[FanGirl]

What helped the rebels is the fact that the imperials couldn't hit the broadside of a barn. I mean if they had been able to hit that pod with R2D2 and C3PO in it when they were escaping then the farm boy never would have gotten off Tatoonie. He'd be hanging out in beggar's canyon shooting womp rats.

[The Other Dude]

What helped the rebels is the fact that the imperials couldn't hit the broadside of a barn. I mean if they had been able to hit that pod with R2D2 and C3PO in it when they were escaping then the farm boy never would have gotten off Tatoonie. He'd be hanging out in beggar's canyon shooting womp rats.

I guess that's why the Death Star was so large, they figured if they had something big enough, it would eventually hit something. Maybe even a planet! (I hope that didn't spoil it for anybody...)

[RobinHoodDaffy]

What I have always wanted to know is why do Stormtroopers wear armor? It's not blaster proof, and when hit by a fist they still go down, so why bother with the white plastic.

It does however help the head enough that when hit going through a doorway the spaz can actually stay standing. Still they could acomplish more with a football helmet.

[Dave]

I think they have minor armour in them, so it's better than just wearing a red shirt eh. But i think the main purpose is to elimate any individuality out of the troops. (and initially to perhaps hid the fact that the troopers were clones)

[RobinHoodDaffy]

True they do destroy individuality, but Luke states that you can't really see in the helmet, and then we wonder why the 'troopers can't hit the broadside of a Bantha. At least Vader's gloves are blaster resistant, and flexable, if I were a Stormtrooper, I would be saving up for a pair of those gloves.

[slizzelizzel]

I Think the main reason that Luke and his buddies didn't get in behind Vader and take him and his two wingmen out is because of the potential to miss and hit thier own guys. Vader missed tons of times, with his lasers glancing over the X-Wings shields, so if Luke were to go in behind him and miss, he could have blown his own guys up.

[ratm1966]

What helped the rebels is the fact that the imperials couldn't hit the broadside of a barn. I mean if they had been able to hit that pod with R2D2 and C3PO in it when they were escaping then the farm boy never would have gotten off Tatoonie. He'd be hanging out in beggar's canyon shooting womp rats.
They didn't shoot at that pod. When it was launched, the imperials detected the launch, but let it go because there weren't any life signs.

I Think the main reason that Luke and his buddies didn't get in behind Vader and take him and his two wingmen out is because of the potential to miss and hit thier own guys. Vader missed tons of times, with his lasers glancing over the X-Wings shields, so if Luke were to go in behind him and miss, he could have blown his own guys up.
Ah, but they could have approached from above, as Han did to save Luke. This would have removed the possibilty of friendly fire.

[slizzelizzel]

Very true, but while we're on the subject of approaching from above, why the heck didn't the rebels just fly up to the DS, shoot their torpedos head on into the exhaust port, and fly away, instead of flying through the trench? It made sense to be in the trench once Vader's TIEs joined them in the trench, seeing how that stopped the turbolasers that were in front of them from firing, but once Vader showed up, they were like sitting ducks.

Then again the rebels had like 20 minutes to get a battle plan together, and hey, in the end, the thing blew up, so who are we to judge. Yeah it was sloppy, but they got the job done.

[Razorback]

The end battle trench run in A New Hope IS ridiculous. See, all they had to do was have one fighter break off and drop in on the Tie's. They go in with no backup and then just run straight down the trench without attempting to engage the fighters on their six.

It is of course that way because it serves the story. Much like everything else in Star Wars. It could (or should) be different but it isn't because then the story wouldn't be as exciting.

Like the eagles in LOTR.

[slizzelizzel]

What about the eagles?

[Gotherella]

Are you saying Porkins didn't have to die?

[Gotherella]

Tatoonie.

hee hee :D

[ratm1966]

Are you saying Porkins didn't have to die?
That's right, he didn't have to die. He could have been spending his free time floating down some river in the backwoods of Geogia....Wait, that is a different movie.

[The Other Dude]

Tatoonie.

I would venture to guess this is the planet where Tatoo from Fantasy Island is from, but that's another thread altogether. I often wonder if that little man is rolling over in his grave to know that they remade the show with the original Alex the Droog from "A Clockwork Orange" - Malcolm McDowell.

[actualsize]

What about the eagles?
I had a rough night and I hate the fuckin' eagles, man!

[highriskrc]

I realize that as odd as it may seem, I actually have yet to see any Star Wars film in my life. I am 21 years old, and although I'm pretty sure that some of the first movies came out before I was ever concieved, I realize the popularity that this movie saga has accumulated. I believe the reason that I have never sat down and watched it is because when I watch a movie I have a hard time enjoying things that I can't fathom could possibly really occur. Someone convince me as to why I should go rent the entire collection and then see the new movie in theaters.
www.robbiecassidy.4t.com

[The Other Dude]

I realize that as odd as it may seem, I actually have yet to see any Star Wars film in my life. I am 21 years old, and although I'm pretty sure that some of the first movies came out before I was ever concieved, I realize the popularity that this movie saga has accumulated. I believe the reason that I have never sat down and watched it is because when I watch a movie I have a hard time enjoying things that I can't fathom could possibly really occur. Someone convince me as to why I should go rent the entire collection and then see the new movie in theaters.

Umm... I don't even know where to start. I'm shocked. Stunned. Mortified. Where do you live, in a cave? You are aware of the invention called television, and that they do have shows on it right? How could you have possibly missed seeing any Star Wars movies, even by accident? I'm not getting on your case, I think society is to blame here. We, as a planet have failed you. How can we make amends? There must be some way to right this wrong. I'm think I may have to buy you episodes IV-VI just to get you up to speed. And get you popcorn so you'll watch them. And whatever else is required.

[Matt1]

I believe the reason that I have never sat down and watched it is because when I watch a movie I have a hard time enjoying things that I can't fathom could possibly really occur.
I've come across many people who have said the same thing, and I just don't get that mindset. I mean, when you're dealing with fiction, it's all made up, so why would anyone care whether its "realistic".

Oh well. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

[karmattack]

My cousin / housemate is the same way. He has to have his fiction a little closer to reality to suspend his disbelief. What's strangest about it is we both love movies and have pretty much identical opinions and taste in the movies we've both seen. When it comes to sci-fi and fantasy, he just shuts off.

[Razorback]

What about the eagles?

Tolkien realized that by creating them that he had made almost the entire story pointless. They could have just flown Frodo to Mt. Doom and dropped the Ring in. So he had to use them as little as possible.

[highriskrc]

He has to have his fiction a little closer to reality to suspend his disbelief. What's strangest about it is we both love movies and have pretty much identical opinions and taste in the movies we've both seen. When it comes to sci-fi and fantasy, he just shuts off.
We, as a planet have failed you. How can we make amends? There must be some way to right this wrong. I'm think I may have to buy you episodes IV-VI just to get you up to speed. And get you popcorn so you'll watch them. And whatever else is required
the other dude
It is just that what karmattack said..... my ficition has to be a little more closer to reality to suspend my desbelief... If not, I find myself during the whole movie saying things like, "Okay... why the fuck did he just do 8 flips in the air before doing a 360* turn, wiping his ass, put a sleeper hold on a guy, and bitch slap him with a light sabre?" It just can't keep my interest for that long and I get bored, only to then go watch more wrestling videos.

[The Other Dude]

It is just that what karmattack said..... my ficition has to be a little more closer to reality to suspend my desbelief... If not, I find myself during the whole movie saying things like, "Okay... why the fuck did he just do 8 flips in the air before doing a 360* turn, wiping his ass, put a sleeper hold on a guy, and bitch slap him with a light sabre?" It just can't keep my interest for that long and I get bored, only to then go watch more wrestling videos.

So, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you've never seen any of the Matrix movies either.

[highriskrc]

No Matrix movies either.... nor have I watched any Star Trek on television, save the occassional channel-surf-over.... the only thing that I can ever remember watching that would at least be classified as semi-sci-fi was a show on the Sci-Fi channel called 'A Space Oddessy 2001' where two robots sat there and talked over old movies, making it a slight more enteratining than it would have been otherwise.
www.robbiecassidy.4t.com

[karmattack]

Mystery Science Theater 3000?

http://www.serialexperience.com/image_gallery/Richard_Crane.jpg

[highriskrc]

Yes!!!!!!!! I don't know where the 'A Space Oddessy 2001' brain-fart came from.

[karmattack]

It came from not being a fan of Science Fiction. No harm


Back to Star Wars, has anyone seen these? (http://masterreplicas.com/customer/starwars/starwars_product_list.php?cid=9) For starters, aren't the Anakin Ep III and Luke Ep V sabers technically the same saber? Why wouldn't they use the Luke Ep VI saber?! That's the one I would buy; the green blade? Are you kidding?

And secondly, an actual, functioning light saber tops my list of all-time fantasy gadgets to own, followed closely by the floating skatebaord in Back To The Future II.

[bwdial]

I've seen the original three and one of the new ones. I think it was something or other about clones. I keep hearing that this is the last piece of the puzzle, but weren't there supposed to be nine? Or, have I been in a cave, too?

[Mighty Wingman]

You know, since joining the military I have had a problem with Star Wars Episode IV. I don't know, but someone might have covered it somewhere before. Anyways, my problem with it is in the tactics the rebels used when attacking the Death Star.

Of course, you all know the part when the first 3-ship formation is cruising down the canyon in an attempt to get their missiles in the shaft (that sounded so 70' porn). Darth and his two wingmen fall in behind them and start blasting them to hell. After that, the second 3-ship goes at it and Darth and his buddies fall in behind them. My question is this.....Why in the fuck didn't Luke and his buddies even attempt to help the first 3-ship formation. Hell, they could have swooped in behind Vader and blew them all to hell.

Of course this never bothered me when I was a kid, but after serving 20 in the military, it just gets on my nerves that the first three were left hanging out to dry by their fellow rebels (Luke included).

See, the thing is the other pilots were doing it wrong , they weren't using the force so saving their lives would've meant that they would've kept taking shots and kept missing. Then when the D.S. had a clear line of sight boom , no more rebellion. Luke was a nobody,( just there to fly cover which, as you point out he wasn't so good at.) so the only way he gets a shot is if there's no one else left. Thus the other pilots were sacrificed for the greater good.

* Takes off kooky logic helmet, goes to another thread.*

[Mighty Wingman]

Back to Star Wars, has anyone seen these? (http://masterreplicas.com/customer/starwars/starwars_product_list.php?cid=9)
Mine's the one that says Bad MuthaF*cker.

aren't the Anakin Ep III and Luke Ep V sabers technically the same saber?
Should be... :confused:

And secondly, an actual, functioning light saber tops my list of all-time fantasy gadgets to own, followed closely by the floating skatebaord in Back To The Future II.
I keep telling people , choose the Delorean instead, then you can go back ( err forward ) and get all the skateboards you want.

[The Other Dude]

No Matrix movies either.... nor have I watched any Star Trek on television, save the occassional channel-surf-over.... the only thing that I can ever remember watching that would at least be classified as semi-sci-fi was a show on the Sci-Fi channel called 'A Space Oddessy 2001' where two robots sat there and talked over old movies, making it a slight more enteratining than it would have been otherwise.

or ummm... as we earthlings called it, Mystery Science Theatre 3000.

[The Other Dude]

* Takes off kooky logic helmet, goes to another thread.*

May I borrow the kooky logic helmet? It looks cool!

[Mighty Wingman]

May I borrow the kooky logic helmet? It looks cool!

Well that's just because I'm so sexy I make everything look cool. It would just look funny if anyone else was wearing it.