faranheit 9/11 looks like a loser

[bradrichgruber]

i just saw the trailer of faranheight 9/11, if this movie makes any profit im moving to mexico! this moore character is an idiot. I think a psyche reveiw is in order.

[Mighty_Wingman]

So you'd rather speak Spanish than have freedom of speech ?

[bradrichgruber]

freedom isn't free -tom clancy

i'ld much rather eat rat posion than watch liberal hippy protestors drag this country to hell. moore is a washed out, burned out hippy with out anything real to say.

[Mighty_Wingman]

Well okay then, I suggest you move to Mexico and eat yourself a BIG FAT bowl of rat poison. Sounds like the only solution to your problems, you ask me ?...

People will see this movie. People that believe Michael and think he's a great guy, and eat up everything he says. And people that hate Mike and look to poke holes in his subterfuge.

Sorry , what I was tryin' to say was; the movie will do well, regardless. And If a movie can cause the loss of your allegiance to your country ? We don't need you.

[bradrichgruber]

don't apologize to me, it's not your fault that pot makes you lose your memory. moving to mexico is just a cliche', again it's not your fault pot removed your intelligence. what i'm saying is: moore is just re-itterating what the original hippies said in 60's, nothing a 5 year old can't figure out on their own. What a 5 year old can't figure out is why any man or woman would die to give somebody else freedom.

[Mighty_Wingman]

Okay Goober , let's not make ass-umptions. I have a college degree. Two steady jobs, and I've probably smoked less Pot than you.

All I know about you is, you're entirely too worked up over a movie, you don't like Michael Moore , or hippies.

Did it not occur to you to come in, wipe your feet at the door, politely say "hi" , and get to know everyone a bit before launching into tirades ?

Hey, know what else looks like a Loser ?
And speaking of memory , see if you can remember how to find your shift key.

[bradrichgruber]

I refuse to dignify moore with any proper etiquette.
I don't smoke pot, tried it once and didn't like it.
As far as you having a college degree & two steady jobs, who cares? couldn't prove it by ass-umptions.
Yes I am a loser, I wouldn't be here if I wasn't.
I have never been polite, and don't really care what others think, but I'll wipe my shoes on your door mat after i get done with your mama.

[Razorback]

The answer to Michael Moore is coming this summer. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

[Dave]

Is it 47?
the answer to Moore that is.

[Razorback]

M=HA2 (http://www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com/index.html)

[Dave]

Well, guess what. It turns out that for the last 6 months, Ray Bradbury has been trying to get Moore to change the name of his movie. (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040619/D83A0PJ00.html)

I think it's quite obvious that Moore took the name from Bradbury's Novel, do you think if a lawsuit is filed (and we all know it's way too late to change the name of the Movie now.) Bradbury would win? or Would Micheal Moore escape through the Satire Loophole?

Let's not forget that a Film version of Fahrenheit 451 is in Pre-Production right now. Could it be hurt by Moore's use of the name?

[bradrichgruber]

It seems to me that anything moore does is hurtful, and solely intended to disturb the parents of soldiers who are fighting these wars. Could moore be sewed against and win thruogh a loop hole? Well I'm no-lawyer, but I have personally found loop holes in every ticket I ever got.
More-over, moore is just one person of an "eleven percent of the population" group trying to contol the rest of the country by deceit and confusion. They accomplish this by making up catch phrases such as "partial birth abortion" and "weak and simple minded women". The effect is obvious and dubious, and i feel that our Constitution has been comprimised by a minority, no race or religion, but of a non structured beleif system that we call liberalism.

[FanGirl]

Gruber -

First off the expression is "I'm moving to Canada" not Mexico since that's where the draft dodgers went during the Vietnam era. It's an expression not a cliche.

I'm a little confused as to why you think Moore has any kind of control. He isn't in the government. He doesn't make any laws. He's just a member of the press. He is giving his viewpoints in a format to reach the masses. He is trying to get people to look at things in a different light. It's up to them as to whether they believe him or not. He's not doing it to be hurtful. He's just expressing his viewpoint just like you are here.

I am not a liberal and I am not a conservative. I think there needs to be an even mix. I'm pro-choice and pro-death penalty. I go with what makes the most sense on a case by case basis. Part of the beauty of this country is the fact that you can disagree and agree and argue on any topic anywhere. Personally, though I was asked to leave a lobby for arguing about at what point did Vader learn that Luke was his son, but that's beside the point.

I don't think Moore is any more or less right in his viewpoints. He's just the only one making enough noise about it. I wouldn't say I'm a fan nor would I say that he doesn't know what he's talking about. I don't agree with his tactics, but I think it is an important part of a free society to challege the establishment.

Dave - I don't think he would win because it's fairly common thing to twist a known title for other purposes. I'm sure you've heard of it before *cough* porn *cough.* I mean why can't Moore call it that when there is movies like Forrest Hump, Pulp Friction and Big Trouble in Little Vagina?

[bradrichgruber]

No, fangirl, the cliche' (over used expression) is "moving to mexico", since i can't stand canadians. Being I'm from wisconsin (yes metatron, wisconsin is that bad) I am no stranger to protestors and their tatics, one of which is to use perverse images and practical political misconceptions to "control" the minds of the masses. -ever hear of the phrase "...what gives us the right to force our freedom on other countries?" Do you see how well thought out that comment is?
1.)-rebellion- what gives us the right
2.)-subliminal message for evil- force
3.)-catch phrase- freedom ...other countries
this phrase is intended to instill false pride in teenagers in such a manner that they cannot argue with

want other comments and phrases broken down?

[FanGirl]

Generally, one moves to mexico when evading the law. One goes to Canada when escaping the government. At least that's the way, I've always understood it. You're hatred of Canadians doesn't negate that.

I really don't understand your last post at all. The phrase you are arguing is "What gives us the right to force our freedom on others?

I don't understand your logic as to why this statement is wrong. Are you saying that rebellion gives us the right? How is the use of force a subliminal message for evil? And are you saying freedom is a catch phrase in other countries? You argument makes very little sense in this format. Please elaborate for the class.

I really don't get the phrase "instilling false pride in teenagers in a manner they cannot argue with." Pride in what exactly? Whay can't they argue with it? When I was a teenager I argued whether or not we had the right to go into Vietnam or not and the 60s had much better slogans than that.

Please explain further.

[bradrichgruber]

more to fangirl- i'm breaking down the phrase so that people can see how they are being misguided.
"...what gives us the right to force our freedom on other countries?"
Do you see how well thought out that comment is?
1.)-rebellion- "what gives us the right" (this part of the statemant is rebellious and it clicks that way in people's minds)
2.)-subliminal message for evil- "force" (this part of the statement is geared towards making the people think that men and women dying to give other people freedom is wrong.)
3.)-catch phrase- "freedom ...other countries" ( this part of the statement give the staement meaning and cause, the catch phrase)
this phrase is intended to instill false pride in teenagers in such a manner that they cannot argue with


I'm not stupid and I'm not smart, but com' on. Don't you see how you're being manipulated? a couple of things stood out here.

"... he's just the loudest voice"
stick a microphone in a room with ten people who are at progesively louder db's, who do you think you'll hear?

"... he's trying to get people to look at things in a differnt light."
the thing with protestors is they believe the whole world should only look at their light. This phrase is another catch phrase. It's intended to make ignorant people feel like they're sophisticated.

"... important part of free society to challenge the establishment"
this catch phrase's intended purpose is to make people feel good about lashing out at authority for no reason. If you'll remeber the hippies of the 60's used to throw rocks at un-armed soldiers -and killing some- coming off planes at airports, justifying it with all the babies killed in Vietnam. Why did they do this? I think it's because they had subliminal messages so ingrained in their heads that even when it came to being contradictory to their cause it was right (in their minds).

[bradrichgruber]

are you trying to understand me?
or maybe i'm not smart enough to explain it any better.

whatever

[FanGirl]

Maybe it's just me, but I'm so lost as to what exactly you're trying to get across because your argument is disjointed and you keep throwing out words like "catch phrase" when I think you mean "buzz word." A catch phrase is "Make love not war." A buzz word(s) is a word(s) that specifically gets you to have certain connotations with it. What exactly is your stance? Are you for or against the message of the film which is that we have no right to go into the Middle East?

I think you missed my point about the loudest voice. I wasn't meaning literally. I was saying that Michael Moore is very good at marketing himself so that he'll reach the largest audience. It is total manipulation. That what marketing is all about. He wants you to come see his view points.

I don't understand how looking at something in a different light "makes ignorant people feel sophisticated." Looking at an issue from all viewpoints is what you are supposed to do when making a good decision. Looking at things from other perspective makes you less ignorant. Protestors want you to see things from their perspective and yes, they want you to agree with them. What is wrong with wanting someone to see your side of things? Wouldn't you want them to see your point of view as well?

Challenging the establishment is not the same as lashing out at authority. You can challenge a view point without lashing out. I'm challeging your view point. I'm not lashing out at you needlessly.

The protesters who were throwing stones at unarmed guards weren't being motivated by subliminal messages at all. It was all very conscious. They were extremists who were using an extreme point of view. The rationale is that if the soldiers can take innocent babies lives then they can attack innocent soliders. It's not right. It's the same rationale the pro-lifers use with attacking the abortion doctors. There is a certain logic to it. It's just the logic isn't correct. Two wrongs don't make a right, but three will get you back on the freeway.

[bradrichgruber]

whatever

[Razorback]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I don't understand how looking at something in a different light

[/ QUOTE ]

Moore doesn't want anyone to look at his work "in a different light." He wants people to look at it in a very specific way, and no other way than that. His movies are leading you down a road, not asking you to take a nice trip of new awareness.

Having said that, I have actually enjoyed his movies. While "Bowling" was a ridiculous attempt, by Moore, to slam specific right-wingers, it did call attention to the fact that the American media feeds its people with fear. If Moore wasn't such a ninny he would have actually made a documentary about the poisoning of the American psyche by the news media.

[FanGirl]

But isn't this his very specific way a different viewpoint? I'm not saying that he is going to show all sides. I'm saying that his documentary is offering one side of an point of view.

[Razorback]

My problem is the fact that he was awarded an Oscar for a documentary that wasn't one. And that non-Americans, including our enemies, use his movies as a way to judge this country and its leadership. This isn't some film maker giving another point of view, this is a man who doesn't want to give you another point of view, he wants to give you a specific and false point of view that he claims is based in total fact.

[FanGirl]

I don't think that non-Americans are going to base their opinions of this country and its leadership on his documentaries. I think that is giving him way too much credit. As a documentarian, I wouldn't put him any higher than Ken Burns and Burns' facts are highly questionable on his civil war documentaries. It's just one person's opinion based on the facts that he is given and beleives to be true.

I remember watching the BBC the day of September 11th and their attitude was best summed up as "Americans were surprised today by a terrorist attack that pretty much the rest of the world saw coming for the last few months."

I don't think you can call it a false point of view. It's his viewpoint which is valid based on what he believes to be facts. If he believes those facts to be true, it is a vaild view point. If he is changing the facts specifically, then it's false. It's hard to prove that he doesn't actually believe what he is expressing.

[Razorback]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I don't think that non-Americans are going to base their opinions of this country and its leadership on his documentaries.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, believe it or not, they do. I have heard more crap about America from "Bowling" and now F911 from my family and friends around the world than anything else.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I don't think you can call it a false point of view. It's his viewpoint which is valid based on what he believes to be facts.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I thought for a second that Moore thought his opinions were based in fact I would agree. However, when he ties Dick Clark to an unfortunate murder or Bush to the 9/11 attacks then I just roll my eyes and call the man a liar.

[FanGirl]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
If I thought for a second that Moore thought his opinions were based in fact I would agree. However, when he ties Dick Clark to an unfortunate murder or Bush to the 9/11 attacks then I just roll my eyes and call the man a liar.

[/ QUOTE ]

I never got the idea that he thinks that Dick Clark is personally responsible. He just chose a high profile company to show that they use employees that they can get for less money.

I haven't seen 911 yet so I can't say how much he says that Bush was responisble for 9/11. But thinking that a President was aware of a major attack on American soil and did nothing just to get into a war isn't exactly a new idea. There have been theories that they knew Pearl Harbor was going to happen and allowed it since congress wouldn't give them approval to help the war effort previously. There are people who believe this based on the facts they have heard. It's amazing what people will truly believe despite all evidence to the contray *cough* Elvis is dead *cough* We roll our eyes at that, but it doesn't mean millions of Elvis fans don't honestly believe it.

[Razorback]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I never got the idea that he thinks that Dick Clark is personally responsible. He just chose a high profile company to show that they use employees that they can get for less money.

[/ QUOTE ]

That was his point? So the progession of events, scene-by-scene, wasn't an attempt to lay blame in any way with the evil and corrupt Dick Clark?

[FanGirl]

Maybe I watched it wrong, but I just took Dick Clark to be the head of a company that had business practices that unfortunately lead to those events. I never got the idea that Dick Clark was personally responsible.

[ozchick]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
In reply to:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't think that non-Americans are going to base their opinions of this country and its leadership on his documentaries.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Well, believe it or not, they do. I have heard more crap about America from "Bowling" and now F911 from my family and friends around the world than anything else.


[/ QUOTE ]

Speaking as a Non-American, I believe I am quite capable of coming to my own conclusions regarding your country and &amp; leaders (opinions which are polar opposites) without being influenced one way or another by a filmmaker.

Of course I haven't seen Bowling or F911. But I really doubt I'd be persuaded from my own opinions regardless of the information or misinformation (whichever it may be) coming from these films.

So to be fair, I'll try to watch Bowling for Columbine and see what my thoughts are and whether they differ at all to my thoughts now. F911 will probably be a long time coming over here - but I'm sure this discussion will still be going anyway /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

[Razorback]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Speaking as a Non-American, I believe I am quite capable of coming to my own conclusions regarding your country

[/ QUOTE ]

My country is Iceland. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

[ozchick]

Don't you worry - I've got a bunch of opinions about Iceland too....ummm... lots of ice right? /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

[PK420]

funny , just signed on tonight , with the same idea on my mind , read my post if u will , but anyways , heres my opinion , if it counts , on the topic.

I heard on the news , btw im in Canada ,yeh bahaha ,lol at me , but anyways , i heard some lady , dont remember the name , from republicans , calling this movie propoganda. Now please , all those who agree , me im unbiased , havent seen it yet, will do this thursday , but tell me how this is propoganda? If the truths are distorted , still , how is it propoganda , and who is affected by it? We all watch movies , some mimicking WW II (Platoon, Enemy @ The Gates) , or other movies making us laugh at real life circumstances , ( Fight Club / Clockwork Orange) , ok , maybe my comparisons are off , but were these flims I've mentioned , not based on truth's , or similarities to life? Trainspotting? Heist? Or even Texas Chainsaw , which the producer says was inspired by a true story , inspired was the key right? Are these films not propganda as well? Platoon was a classic , but it showed the error of your land during vietnam , it was made in 1986 right? During a time , of hostlity with U.S.S.R , and U.S.A. Bottom line , i'm high , and wanna type , im going to see Farenhiet 911 this thursday , taking my mom out for dinner , then catching it , it will be intresting , and if you have an open mind , then it shouldnt be considered propoganda , but meerly expression of thought.
Thank You

[cberquist]

It seems to me that anything moore does is hurtful, and solely intended to disturb the parents of soldiers who are fighting these wars.

&gt;&gt; I could say that I think dropping bombs is hurtful, and I could say that sending their kids off to a Iraq to fight this war should disturb parents. Instead, I will just say that if you don't like what Moore has to say, don't watch it.

[bradrichgruber]

Really, I had no idea that dropping bombs hurt people or sending soldiers over seas already disturbs parents. WOW have I been in the dark, thanks for giving me some clue as to where I should stand

OMG I just figured out that I'm not supposed to piss on the toilet seat, that's kinda mind blowing.
OMG I just figured out that I'm supposed to look both ways before I cross the streat.
OMG I just figured out that 1+1=2

Does anyone wanna know how (if I were President) I could justify this war?

[Razorback]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Now please , all those who agree , me im unbiased , havent seen it yet, will do this thursday , but tell me how this is propoganda? If the truths are distorted , still , how is it propoganda

[/ QUOTE ]

Despite your overuse of commas, I was able to stand your writing style long enough to want to respond to the above quoted portion.

Propaganda is defined as the systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause.

Documentary is defined as the presenting of facts objectively without editorializing or inserting fictional matter, as in a book or film.

Moore asserts himself a documentarist when he is the furthest thing from being one. As a filmmaker who engages in the systematic propogation of a doctrine, cause, or information reflecting the views of which he personally advocates he cannot be accounted as anything but (as defined above, and feel free to look it up yourself) a PROPAGANDIST.

[bradrichgruber]

What country are you from?
What DO YOU THINK of America?

[bradrichgruber]

Finally, a Canadian with some intelligence.
I just may have to change my views on Canada

[Razorback]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Finally, a Canadian with some intelligence.

[/ QUOTE ]

I bet Forrest Gump thought Bubba was intelligent.

[bradrichgruber]

I stand corrected.

[bradrichgruber]

There alot of valid points being made both ways on this subject. For some reason I feel the need to point out that this particular forum is entirely opinion. I don't like moore, I don't like what he's doing.

-stupid question-
did President Bush really talk about the war while he was golfing on camera?
Does it matter?

[FanGirl]

It is entirely opinion and I was asking you earlier just to clarify your opinions, but you just said whatever and walked away.

[bradrichgruber]

I can only explain myself to a point, I'm not educated enough to do so.

What I was trying to get accross was that people use various phrases and they don't undestand that the phrases have underlying intent.

Did I do better this time?

[Razorback]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
-stupid question-
did President Bush really talk about the war while he was golfing on camera?
Does it matter?


[/ QUOTE ]

I actually saw the interview with Bush, on CSPAN, and after he talked to the reporters he did say something about his golf swing. Is it important? Does it make Bush look bad? Only to those who are predisposed to disliking him.

It is no different than the Republicans not beeing able to see how wrong it was to try and remove a President from power for something that should have been handled out of the public eye. People consumed by their agenda's are blind to how sad it is to receive enjoyment from trying to destroy a man with whom they have a philosophical disagreement.

[bradrichgruber]

H*ly S**t dude, that's deep!
This of course leads me to another question.
What in God's name did he do to make people hate him so much? Is it just this war? Did he do something I am un aware of?

[Razorback]

Bush? Yes, he is a Republican who decided that he was going to do what he thought was right, and damn the know-nothings who couldn't make a real decision if the solution was presented to them by God.

Had Dubya been a Democrat we would probably be in the same spot, except that Republicans would be screaming about all the bad the President has done, Democrats would be defending him, and F911 would be about how Republicans tried to railroad the President into showing weakness to terrorists hellbent on killing us all.

[ozchick]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
What country are you from?


[/ QUOTE ]

Australia bozo, just like it says beneath my avatar.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
What DO YOU THINK of America?

[/ QUOTE ]
I think America has the best clam chowder I've ever tasted.

[bradrichgruber]

Ok
Clam Chowder
yeah
Does Steve Erwin soley represent your country?
was Austrailia origanally supposed to be a prison for the brits?

www.music-stuff.4t.com (http://www.music-stuff.4t.com)

[ozchick]

Yes. Steve Irwin &amp; Crocodile Dundee are 100% accurate portrayals of everyday Australians. Much like how all Americans are exactly like Jerry Springer guests.

And Yes. Australia was originally where the British sent their convicts over 200 years ago. How stupid where they? There they are in the gloomy grey &amp; cold country whilst we live it up in the sun &amp; surf over here. How embarrasing to have to put up with that whole 'convict' moniker!

Crikey!

[RobinHoodDaffy]

Yo, if Steve Irwin &amp; Crocodile Dundee represent your country, where you been at? Bitch, that ain't my country's daddy. Also, I have been sleeping with your goat, for it is all that and you aint it Miz Thang! You wanna fight? /forums/images/icons/grin.gif

[ozchick]

So to get into the whole Jerry thing - I pretty much just have to whip off my top right? /forums/images/icons/grin.gif

[RobinHoodDaffy]

JERR-RY JERR-RY JERR-RY JERR-RY JERR-RY JERR-RY JERR-RY JERR-RY JERR-RY JERR-RY JERR-RY JERR-RY

The funny thing is I hate the show, it depresses me, but far be it from me to getting into a discussion about American culture, how about bowling or mini-golf?

[bradrichgruber]

Looks Like I have a new post to write!

MUSIC STUFF (http://www.music-stuff.4t.com)

[Matthew]

Thanks for the popups and spyware jack ass!

[bradrichgruber]

I've just became a newbie
I feel special

MUSIC STUFF (http://www.music-stuff.4t.com)

[bwdial]

That...or rip off someone else's top. /forums/images/icons/grin.gif

[FanGirl]

Getting back on track here....

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
What I was trying to get accross was that people use various phrases and they don't undestand that the phrases have underlying intent.


[/ QUOTE ]

That part I understood. It's your examples that we're making any sense.

[Dave]

What does any of this have to do with the question i raised about Bradbury v. Moore?
Not that this hasn't been entertaining, 'cause it has been.

[FanGirl]

Dave - I answered you pages ago.

[Dave]

Oh, yeah, i guess i just forgot with all the other crap goin on. And, perhaps, i was wondering what a few other peeps opinion of that was.

[karmattack]

Bradbury would lose in court. Although, he wins in making a statement. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

[karmattack]

Slightly off-topic.

Obviously I've seen plenty of my town in Michael Moore's movies. Roger &amp; Me was ABOUT Flint, then there was a significant portion of Bowling For Columbine that was in and about Flint (there's a full-frame shot of an apartment I was living in at the time). Now, he goes back to Flint once again for Fahrenheit 9/11.

THIS, however seems to fit the context of these boards. One of the things he does in Flint is follow some recruiters around (the purpose is to shed light on how military recruiters spotlight poor areas to enlist). At one point, they go to The Courtland Center because it is well known as, oposed to Genesee Valley, the mall with the lower budget patrons.

Yes, Brodie, our dirt mall is in the movie.

For those of you going to see the movie, don't even try to explain that inside joke. /forums/images/icons/grin.gif

[jjcourtright]

Where's our favorite unemployed lawyer when we need him most? As far as I know, there is nothing that Bradbury can do. It looks to me like the only thing that Moore needs to worry about are bad reviews. This guy (http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/) at Slate butchers the film...and practically challenges Moore to a fight. A word fight at least.

[ILovePapaSmurf]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I actually saw the interview with Bush, on CSPAN, and after he talked to the reporters he did say something about his golf swing. Is it important? Does it make Bush look bad? Only to those who are predisposed to disliking him.

[/ QUOTE ]

<font color="purple">Hun, it made him look tacky.</font color>

[Razorback]

To you, and those like you who want to think of him that way.

[ILovePapaSmurf]

<font color="purple">Even my grandparents thought it was tacky of him and they are HUGE supporters of Bush.</font color>

[Razorback]

That was the intended message from Moore. Have you seen it in context? Nope.

[Razorback]

Here (http://aint-it-cool-news.com/display.cgi?id=17834) is a great review of the movie from a guy who clearly has a problem with the current administration. What is amazing about this review is that despite the writers opinions about the war, and perhaps Bush, he nearly achieves a level of non-partisanship in the overal analysis.

[Dr3vil]

http://media.michaelmoore.com/_media/images_la/f911-home-interim_03.jpg

I like the film already just because of that poster, /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif. Seriously, though, the only people who are offended (despite never seeing it) are those whose fragile world views are threatened by the idea that they might in some small way be subjective /forums/images/icons/shocked.gif. The film's merely the truth from his point of view, or insight into a true half of the story if you'd prefer, or even just a half-truth. Only the truly spoon fed would demand that those claiming not to lie be unfeasibly exhaustive in their report. It's also conveyed to make his view seem relatable and, God forbid, agreeable. I figure if pastors can do it week in and week out, the left should have some equally evangelical air time, and what better place than a sanctum of commerce? /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

I bet the voter turnout is higher this year, but it sorta makes me wish for the days when most idiots were too apathetic to be bothered with politics.

[karmattack]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
...it sorta makes me wish for the days when most idiots were too apathetic to be bothered with politics.

[/ QUOTE ] Spoken like a true Republican.

KIDDING!

[Jason_Brown]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Where's our favorite unemployed lawyer when we need him most?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, I got distracted by job-hunting and Onimusha 3.

There's a very broad "parody" exception to copyright protection. This was memorably reaffirmed in the '90's, when 2 Live Crew was sued for using a sample of "(Oh) Pretty Woman" in one of their songs. /forums/images/icons/smirk.gif

If, by chance, Bradbury also has a trademark for the title of his book, he is probably still out of luck. Among other things, he'd need to prove that the similar titles cause confusion in consumers.

[Razorback]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Seriously, though, the only people who are offended (despite never seeing it) are those whose fragile world views are threatened by the idea that they might in some small way be subjective

[/ QUOTE ]

What bothers me about this movie is that the ignorant won't take this as a movie of half-truths. They will eat this up and be convinced it is all true and will be driven to a level of even deeper ignorance.

I don't care much for what the American public thinks. Despite what you seem to believe, I can't see people being any more motivated to vote because of this movie. It is coming too early in the summer. Moore should have released it in October if he wanted to hold the interest of the dippies who would actually feel inspired by his movie.

I care about the impression this movie creates in the eye of non-Americans. Specifically, our enemies. It is they who will become more motivated by this kind of propaganda. Unfortunately, people who hate this country don't care whether or not this is half-truth or bull. They just care that it makes them look righteous.

[bradrichgruber]

there's a difference between me and most people. Some people beleive what they see, some see what they believe. I need proof on some subjects while others I'll blindly follow.

Why is this important? I believe that it's the differnce between left, right and me. I don't like a lot of people, currently moore.
Why moore? All the more moore is doing right now is trying to convince anyone who is confused in their convictions that war has no purpose.
I believe that anytime a person dies, it is war. From the kid on the street being gunned down for no reason to the soldiers across the world, not just U.S. soldiers, is all an act of war.

My justifications for this war and my support The President, not particulary Bush as the case may have it, is simple: children don't deserve the permanent scars of war. I have seen file footage and on cnn children with melted faces, men and women with boils the size plums. These weapons are not ment for small isolated groups of civilians whose veiws might differ from that of their leaders, they are meant solely for large masses of troops.

I don't believe that moore, or anyone else protesting this war has any real justifications, and are just upset over things they can not comprehend.

There's a differnce between protesting and whining.

[Dave]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Among other things, he'd need to prove that the similar titles cause confusion in consumers.

[/ QUOTE ]

That, J.B. is why i mentioned that a Film version of 451 is being made right now. What happens if people just look at the Fahranhiet portion of the title, and assume it's Moore's Film agian or a sequel or are just plain turned off, because they didn't know where The Title originally came from.

[karmattack]

http://www.karmattack.com/avatars/drew/unclefark.jpg



Seriously, dude. Stop saying things. If you're going to take sides and try to downplay the intelligence of anyone else, make sure your own intelligence is in order. You make no points, your logic is aboslutely out-the-window, and you're only succeeding in frustrating people with your blanket, knee-jerk remarks, and making yourself look like a jackass.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
there's a difference between me and most people.

[/ QUOTE ] there's a difference between every person and every other person.
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Some people beleive what they see, some see what they believe. I need proof on some subjects while others I'll blindly follow.

[/ QUOTE ] You just admitted that you'll blindly follow something/someone. Cut aside everything else and you STILL lose the right to say this: </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I don't believe that moore, or anyone else protesting this war has any real justifications, and are just upset over things they can not comprehend.

[/ QUOTE ] Beside this point, I protested the war in Washington D.C. I protested the war in my state capital. I protest the war currently at my desk, in front of my computer. I have a list of reasons that lead me to COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND why I protest the war and our current president that would blow your uninformed brain out of your nostrils. I may not agree with "the other side," but at least I have the common decency to give them credit that they understand what their beliefs are founded upon.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I don't like a lot of people, currently moore. Why moore? All the more moore is doing right now

[/ QUOTE ] Shut up.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
...is trying to convince anyone who is confused in their convictions that war has no purpose.

[/ QUOTE ] Part (only part) of what he is doing is trying to motivate swing voters. He's saying war has no purpose? I'm curious what orifice you yanked that out of. Maybe he has problems with this current war, the methods of manipulating the American public to initiate it, hidden agendas, and many other things. War in general? No.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I believe that anytime a person dies, it is war. From the kid on the street being gunned down for no reason to the soldiers across the world, not just U.S. soldiers, is all an act of war.

[/ QUOTE ] Yes, grandma, you are having a heart attack. Your heart declared war against you and your potato chip eating.

Please elaborate how every death is caused by war.



</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
My justifications for this war and my support The President, not particulary Bush as the case may have it, is simple: children don't deserve the permanent scars of war.

[/ QUOTE ] So seeing as we, as only one of the most recent cases showed, killed 40 innocent Iraqis celebrating a wedding..........well I, I say I, don't quite get'cher point, boy!

If you think this war is taking place because of Iraqi children, you are blind and misguided. By the way, have you bought your Poop Shoot elevator pass yet? I have one to sell you.
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I have seen file footage and on cnn children with melted faces, men and women with boils the size plums. These weapons are not ment for small isolated groups of civilians whose veiws might differ from that of their leaders, they are meant solely for large masses of troops.

[/ QUOTE ] Is this a non sequitur, or are you just plain making no sense?

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
There's a differnce between protesting and whining.

[/ QUOTE ] So which one are you doing exactly?

[Razorback]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
there's a difference between every person and every other person.

[/ QUOTE ]

A response after my own thought process. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

[bradrichgruber]

I have seen file footage and on cnn children with melted faces, men and women with boils the size plums. These weapons are not ment for small isolated groups of civilians whose veiws might differ from that of their leaders, they are meant solely for large masses of troops.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is this a non sequitur, or are you just plain making no sense?

If seeing a child harmed and maimed is not a good enough reason for a person to get upset or feel completly justified in killing the person who harmed them, then I suggest you take a good look at what you are saying, at your morale core, and your own convictions.

you are nothing more than a watse of skin if you don't believe children should bew harmed.

I think that you are just upset because I don't like moore, and because I don't like moore, a reflection of yourself, then I don't like you.

Why does that bother you?

[Razorback]

I don't think the tone of that response was necessary.

[TomHarrington]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
you are nothing more than a watse of skin if you don't believe children should bew harmed.


[/ QUOTE ]

Really? I think children should get a break in this world. I don't think anyone should suffer until they reach puberty. It's unavoidable at that point anyway. But I don't think children should be harmed, and that makes me a waste of human skin? Whatever. Good day, Dr. Mengele.

[Jason_Brown]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
That, J.B. is why i mentioned that a Film version of 451 is being made right now. What happens if people just look at the Fahranhiet portion of the title, and assume it's Moore's Film agian or a sequel or are just plain turned off, because they didn't know where The Title originally came from.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not saying an argument for consumer confusion can't be made. I just don't think it is a strong one, in this case.

Besides, I don't think Bradbury holds a trademark for his title anyway. /forums/images/icons/grin.gif

[Dave]

I suppose you are right. damn.

[ILovePapaSmurf]

<font color="purple">You know what, you are starting to really piss me off. I was going to stay out of this, but i have to say something. You are a moron. You make me want to hate you and I don't hate people often. I think you are a sad excuse for a person. You make up these idiotic responses to get a rise out of people. Are you that starved for attention that you have to waste valuable space posting idiotic things like, 'I'm being chased by the government'? I'm sorry, but these little kid games are getting annoying and really ridiculous. Just go away, get a brain and learn how to spell correctly. It is annoying. Thanks.</font color>

[Dr3vil]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
What bothers me about this movie is that the ignorant won't take this as a movie of half-truths. They will eat this up and be convinced it is all true and will be driven to a level of even deeper ignorance.

[/ QUOTE ]

A) People hate the truth. Halve truths are common, especially now, because they take only the parts that are clear, two-dimensional, and easy to defend. This is a free market, and information is just another commodity. The half-truth will inevitably be more desired because it's designed to be more palatable, whereas the whole truth or its approximation is given as-is. I don't think it's fair to endorse a system geared to traffic Moore's brand of crap and make issue only in those instances when it doesn't benefit your point of view or even your nation. It just seems like shooting the messenger.

B) What bother's me is that so many people think the answer to fighting ignorance is censorship, that you can fight ingnorance with even greater ignorance. Even if the act is justified, even if Moore being quiet would benefit the nation as a whole, such measures create a climate where truth is arbitrary. The only way to crush ignorance is with it's antithesis: information, the other half to Moore's story. However, that involves work, that takes longer than ordering a happy meal (and censorship doesn't). We complain about our public being treated like sheep when we're the ones teaching them to be that way. We need to take education seriously if we ever want people like Moore to NOT be taken seriously. Until then, the greatest hope we can have is that our electorate makes the right decision for the wrong reasons.

P.S. I think people have been a little hard on Moore as well. He's not trying to spread propaganda, and he's not trying to mislead people. He legitimately believes his movie is the whole truth because, well, he's stupid and I can't put it any nicer. There's no law that says stupid people should command a smaller audience. In fact, if history's any indication, the opposite is often just as, or more true.

[karmattack]

***Damnit! I just read this fine chap got banned. Let me fane disappointment. Oh well, I'll leave this up for post...erity.***

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
then I don't like you.

[/ QUOTE ] Fine then, Mr. Poopypants.
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
you are nothing more than a watse of skin if you don't believe children should bew harmed.


[/ QUOTE ] Well, I definitely don't believe that children should bew harmed, so a waste of skin I apparently am. Wait, how is it wrong to believe that children should not bew harmed? I'm starting to get the feeling that.....YOU who are the ones who are the waste of skin!
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Why does that bother you?

[/ QUOTE ] Seriously? The fact that you don't (or wouldn't) like me could not bother me any less. Obviously, I'd rather be liked than disliked, but considering the way you base your opinions, I couldn't possibly care.

The way you're trying to make points, arguments, and/or accusations is what bothers me.


Now, go grab a dictionary and look up any of the big-kid words you see before you try and act like you understand.

[Razorback]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
What bother's me is that so many people think the answer to fighting ignorance is censorship

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't seen anyone talk about censoring Michael Moore. We are using our freedom of speech to express our feelings about his propaganda.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I think people have been a little hard on Moore as well. He's not trying to spread propaganda, and he's not trying to mislead people. He legitimately believes his movie is the whole truth because, well, he's stupid and I can't put it any nicer. There's no law that says stupid people should command a smaller audience. In fact, if history's any indication, the opposite is often just as, or more true.


[/ QUOTE ]

If it was anyone else I might believe that... but I have no doubt that Moore doesn't care whether any of what he says is true.

[karmattack]

It's Move America Forward (http://www.moveamericaforward.org/) who is doing a lot of the action (effort) of shutting down Fahrenheit 9/11. They played a central role in shutting down the CBS movie about Reagan. They are putting large amounts of pressure on theaters not to show the movie. I think that's the censorship he's talking about.

[Dave]

Yes, that organization is just as wrong as the people who were trying to shut down "The Passion". That is definately censorship. I don't agree with Moore's Politics, but i don't believe his movies should be kept from the theater's.

[karmattack]

Seriously. If you really want to work against him, put his movie out and then explain why it's wrong or at least appear more confident. Trying to hide it away only makes it seem more valid.

***I don't mean YOU-you. The royal "you." /forums/images/icons/smile.gif***

[Dave]

exactly, the best defense really is to totally ignore it. Pay no attention, the hype dies down quickly, less people hear about, and go and see the movie you don't want them to see.

[Mighty_Wingman]

Did anyone hear about the Incubus video MTV pulled ? Because it portrayed our commander-n-chief in a rather negative way ?

So, it's like MTV says : Madonna masturbating with a crucifix , that's cool. But don't say nothin' bad about the Pres.

[FanGirl]

MTV is still overly paranoid since the whole Janet thing. If I were an MTV lawyer, I'd pull anything that would remotely get them sued. Of course, I work for the Mouse's lawyers so I have a little more sympthatic to their panic pulls.

[ILovePapaSmurf]

<font color="purple">Same thing happened to George Michael.</font color>

[Razorback]

Oh, wackos. I am talking about people who are not total 'tards.

[Syckfeight]

I'm sorry, but you are way too opinionated about this movie and are lacking support for your arguments. You make ignorant statements such as "I hate canadians," yet I'm sure you've probably had limited if any contact with a resident of Canada. If you were intelligent, you'd probably realize the similarities between the US and Canada instead of basing your hatred on the false depiction in the South Park movie, upon which you probably base your ignorant generalization. You are the kind of person that probably still sees a link between the war in Iraq and Osama Bin Laden. In fact, you sound like a supremicist [censored]. I bet you'd do wonderfully in Nazi Germany with your negative generalization of other cultures, you arrogant prick.

[Razorback]

Actually, he is right in hating Canadians. They suck!

[liquid_87]

Bradrichgruber is my kinda guy... I read the first chapter of Dude where's my country. The guy is a [censored] nutjob!
Plus he is full-a-bollocks! I really dont like Micheal Moore, incase you didn't notice.

[Razorback]

Where was Moore's movie about the Clinton administration? Why does he barely mention the fact that democrats were more than happy to go to war with Iraq? If he is a champion for the little guy then why does he only aim at the right wing.

[JK]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Where was Moore's movie about the Clinton administration?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been wondering 'bout that.

But the main reason for my post- I'm so sick and freakin' tired of the people who think that because a privately owned theater or distributor exercises their right to show or not show what they want in their venues, it's censorship. Nobody's stopping Moore from saying what he wants to, and no one is obligated to provide him a venue for his movies. Hell, I shot five short films- if I buy into the arguement posed by the proponents of Moore, I'm being censored because theaters won't show my films. It's bullsh*t.

[Razorback]

Moore is an ad machine all by himself.

I love hearing "free thinking" people buy into his bright-shining-lie. Oh, it won't make any difference anyway. The country is split right down the middle and even Moore can't change that no matter how hard he tries. This only strenghtens the resolve of the right wing to fight.

[Mighty_Wingman]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Where was Moore's movie about the Clinton administration?

[/ QUOTE ]

Where's Ken Starrs' billion dollar investigation/indictment for the Bush Administration ?

Or how about just V.P. Cheney, who awards Haliburton a 1.5 billion $ contract without even accepting bids from any other company, all while he's still on Haliburtons' payroll ? Yeah, it's probably just coincidence. If the media is so liberally controlled , why did that story get shoved under the carpet so quickly ? Of course our prescence in Iraq doesn't have anything to do with oil , if it did, those who started it , would have something to gain by it , oh wait, THEY DO.

Where is Starrs' billion dollar investigation into Bushs' connection with Enron ? Or Bin Ladens family for that matter ?

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
This only strenghtens the resolve of the right wing to fight.

[/ QUOTE ]

Read this thread again from the beginning, look who came here just to pick a fight.

I guess what bothers me is, you people are so happy to have a Republican in office , you wont question anything about him. You wont admit his lies or his mistakes, you turn a blind eye to them,( just like he does ) and attack anyone who bothers to point them out. You're so concerned with your side having power, you don't stop to wonder if it's the best thing for America, or the world.

Yeah, I know, you're going to say. " Ditto. "

When Bush is willing send his daughters to fight , when he's willing to drop their spoiled, little, drunk, rich bitch asses in the streets of Baghdad or Fallujah, where they're not allowed to fire, until fired upon, When that spoiled lazy, rich kid whose Daddy bought him out of fighting in Viet-Nam and into the White House has to lay awake at night and wonder if he'll ever see his kids again. That's when I'll start believing the war in Iraq has something to do with 9-11 , or Bin Laden, or Iraqi freedom. When Bushs' daughters see active duty in Iraq, that's the day I'll enlist. When he gets to watch a video of them getting their [censored] heads cut-off and can still talk about "staying the course", then I'll be listening. Until then , he's every bit as full of shit as Michael Moore.

Where is Osama ? We found Saddam in three foot hole under a shed , why is a 6' 4" Arab on dialyses so hard to find ?
Maybe because we're not really looking for the man most responsible for 9-11 ? Or maybe it's that special cell phone of his that prevents tracking ?

Why is it that you avoid conversations about the Patriot Act ? Do you know what it says ? Have you read it ? Any of it ?

Are you really willing to let the fear and anger over 9-11 take your rights, your liberties, your freedoms ?

All that talk, post 9-11 about how we're supposed to continue our lives like normal, How , if we live in fear, then the terrorists have already won. The invasion of Iraq was founded on those fears and angers. And false fears they've turned out to be. Even your senior administration officials have now admitted "there were no WMDs in Iraq", but you're so brainwashed by your sides baloney you probably still wont. How many times has "the story " about why we're there changed ?

You wanna talk about the draft niether side is admitting to ? You wanna talk about why we had to pull 37,000 troops out of a hot-spot like N. Korea ? If enlistment rates are at an "all time high " ?

If the war continues at it's current pace, a draft is inevitible. If something goes wrong in say , Guam, or Cuba, or N.Korea, it'll happen even sooner. And no, it doesn't much matter who gets elected. The draft is almost as likely to happen under Kerry.

You wanna talk about how full of shit Michael Moore is ? You have every right to ! And I agree ! But take a look at your sides Bullshit while you're at it. You act like he's infallable, like he can do no wrong. That's not Patriotism, that's blindness.

I love my country. Terrorists attacks and questionable leadership included. It's still the best game in town. I was born here and God willing, I'll die here. I love our troops , and I hold them in the highest respect for their commitment and sacrifices. They are my brothers and sisters, they are welcome in my home, to my easy chair, and to the last of my beers. They are the greatest Americans alive. I can think of none more deserving of our respect, loyalty and support. I wouldn't trade any one of them for any Iraqis freedom, or oil, or for WMDs that don't exist. They don't deserve to be lied to. They don't deserve to be misused. And of all the reasons to stand against the Bush administration, their honor, their safety,and THEIR FREEDOM is the best one I can think of.

And that's about all I have to say about that.

[Razorback]

A very Michael Moore-like response. Haliburton is the only company capable of doing the job in Iraq. Other companies, that bid on similar contracts, actually hire Haliburton. Why? because Haliburton has the tools, the manpower, and the experience.

As for your other point about being happy about having a republican in office... I was happy when Clinton was in office (except when he pulled troops out of Somalia, only making our enemies more determined to attack us).

The only one brainwashed here is you, little chump. You don't care any more about this country than people on the right. You just want to find problems with this administration so it can help your guy win. Just like how republicans tried to manufacture big problems with Clinton, the left is trying to find anything to use against Bush.

Just like with Clinton, Bush will only receive greater support from his base because of it.

[Dr3vil]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Just like how republicans tried to manufacture big problems with Clinton, the left is trying to find anything to use against Bush.

[/ QUOTE ]
Blowjob vs. Not being able to give consistent justification to the people or the international community for a war whose American death toll is climbing toward 1,000, and defending it just as fiercely, all the same. The former was worthy of impeachment, the ladder is often thought unamerican to even bring up.

I'm not implying Democrats won't stop at nothing to oust Bush, but really, which is the mountain and which is the mole hill? The president has made the war in Iraq seem dogmatically motivated, because (forgetting that reffered to it as a "crusade") every point which seemed like a principle of falsifiability, which would have made this war a mistake if proven false, turned out not to be in Bush's mind.

Nukes? Who cares? WMD? Not needed. Iraqi Freedom? As long as you don't consider "freedom from being bombed" a freedom, that still holds. Iraq Al-Qaeda connection? Well, if you can't prove it didn't happen, they say it happend (burden of truth is bullshitters's best friend). Is there any point at which they'd ever say "okay, we botched it"? Is there even any evidence in the world that could convice dubya that Saddam and Al-Qaeda weren't in cahoots? By clinging to their justification regardless of its verity, they've made it seem baseless.

It leaves people thinking that none of these were the "real reason" we went to war, which has given birth to more leftist conspiracy theories than Michael Moore could ever hope to cook up on his own. Now people are convinced the richies are out to get them. Moore may be the piper, but the administration payed his way.

Personally, it doesn't bother me that much that they can't get their shit together or come clean to the people, the people are stupid and trained to believe in things and not question or understand them, it's that same obstinance in the face of world leaders that's a problem. It's resulted in needless death from insufficient manpower and a distorted image of unilateral oppression, and it's the biggest reason I'm voting for Kerry (as opposed to not at all /forums/images/icons/tongue.gif).

[Razorback]

It is too early to decide whether 1) there were WMD (experts, even those against the war in Iraq, have no doubt they exist) 2) there was an actual relationship between Iraq and Al Qaeda (and how involved that relationship was) 3) if the intelligence services across the "free world" were actually wrong in their analysis of Iraq.

I know... it is so much more fun to come up with punchlines to an accusation than actually dealing with the facts of the matter. Democrats will demand (until Kerry is in office) that any WMD found is not enough proof. Then, when WMD is found during the Kerry administration, Democrats will praise Kerry for finding what Bush could not (even though the president has little to do with the discovering of these weapons).

While people blame Bush for all they see wrong, how come Democrats ignore the actions of their own party? If the war was wrong then why did Democrats allow it to happen? If there is no WMD then why did Democrats demand it existed for the last 10 years?

Oh silly me... reality means nothing when fighting against an evil like Bush. Just make things up in your head so it fits with your agenda. Check. Funny how nothing ever goes wrong in the world when a Democrat is in office.

I guess the build-up of terrorism, and hatred towards America, occured only in the first 8 months of the Bush administration. Nevermind the fact that bin Laden himself stated that it was Clinton's decision to pull out of Somalia that helped forward his wish to attack America. Nevermind that. Let's get rid of Bush so we can get another man in office who will show weakness to the enemy so that they feel safe in killing us again.

Maybe fantasy will save us from the pacifist.

[JIM]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
If there is no WMD then why did Democrats demand it existed for the last 10 years?


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm reminded of the video footage FOX showed of Al Gore back in 1992.
In it, He was saying how Iraq had WMD's and was a haven for terrorists and blah, blah, blah. Basically everything the current administration is saying now.

I also ran across a piece of news that lists the Dems who wrote a letter saying how we should do something about Iraq and Saddam. All of those who called for action back in the nineties are the very ones who are now saying Bush has lied to us, and the current war is wrong and unjust. At the top of that list is... You guessed it... Kerry.

What a bunch of sacks of shit they are.

[Razorback]

The big thing with Democrats now is that we have only found two chemical weapons in Iraq. Well, it only takes ONE to ruin someones day.

[Mighty_Wingman]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
A very Michael Moore-like response.

[/ QUOTE ]

Coming from a Neo-Con, middle-class-hating, labeling machine, like yourself, I'll take that as a compliment. /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

But since you're running a little slow today, I'll say it again. Michael Moore is full of shit, but no more so, than the administration you blindly support.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Haliburton is the only company capable of doing the job in Iraq.

[/ QUOTE ]

Care to back that up ? With anything ? Even remotely resembling an unbiased news source ? I'd be happy to look at anything you can find that proves that. And I'll ask one more time . Are you denying that Cheney was on Haliburtons payroll when the decision about that particular contract was made ?

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
The only one brainwashed here is you, little chump.

[/ QUOTE ]

So once again, you find yourself backed into an indefensible position and resort to name calling, labeling, etc.? You're becoming far too predictable.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
You don't care any more about this country than people on the right.

[/ QUOTE ]
I didn't say I " care more " , just that I care.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
You just want to find problems with this administration so it can help your guy win.

[/ QUOTE ]
My guy's not on the ballot this year , God I miss Bob Dole. I think he'd make a much better president than either of the two jackasses we have to choose between.

Yes, I really mean that.

You've made wrong assumptions about me since I got here. As those of your disposition often do. You call yourself open-minded , yet you never question your own side. You never admit their wrong-doings. Though deep down you know about them. You make assumptions based on half truths and call them Facts , kinda like your buddy, Michael Moore. /forums/images/icons/tongue.gif

R.B. A bad president, is a bad president, regardless which side he might associate himself with. You don't have to admit that to me , but at least admit it to yourself.

[Razorback]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Coming from a Neo-Con, middle-class-hating, labeling machine, like yourself, I'll take that as a compliment

[/ QUOTE ]

This just goes to show what little you know. I am a middle-class liberal. As for "labeling machine" ... pot meet kettle.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Michael Moore is full of shit, but no more so, than the administration you blindly support.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't blindly support this administration. I have, in fact, many times stated an opposition to the policies of this administration. To the point that Karma (and you I believe) asked me why I even support this administration. So far you are 0 for 2.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Care to back that up ? With anything ? Even remotely resembling an unbiased news source ? I'd be happy to look at anything you can find that proves that. And I'll ask one more time . Are you denying that Cheney was on Haliburtons payroll when the decision about that particular contract was made ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Offhand I cannot since I do not keep records of everything that might prove you wrong... however (and this is has never been contested by anyone on the left who wasn't full of shit) Haliburton was already performing the same task in Kuwait and they had all of the resources necessary for the job "on the ground."

Ask anyone who works in government, new sourcing for contracts in Iraq (for the jobs needed) would have taken YEARS due to the checks and balances within the government that seek to prevent pork barrel's. It isn't a blind following that lead me to this conclusion it is facts.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
So once again, you find yourself backed into an indefensible position and resort to name calling, labeling, etc.? You're becoming far too predictable

[/ QUOTE ]

The only thing I have seen from you is name calling and conjecture. You have nothing to add.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
My guy's not on the ballot this year , God I miss Bob Dole. I think he'd make a much better president than either of the two jackasses we have to choose between.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, we may agree there. He was a good man, though I want Hillary Clinton to run for office. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
As those of your disposition often do. You call yourself open-minded , yet you never question your own side

[/ QUOTE ]

You know... I am still a registered democrat.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
A bad president, is a bad president, regardless which side he might associate himself with. You don't have to admit that to me , but at least admit it to yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree... and this one is not a bad president no matter how much you want him to be one. You can keep trying to convince people that he is, but I won't be one of them until he does something to make me feel completely disconnected from his idealogy.

[karmattack]

I haven't read all of your posts yet, MW, but have you seen Fahrenheit 9/11 yet? I saw it on Friday in a packed house (there was a line almost out the door). It's pretty easy to separate the fact from the opinion in this one. Maybe that's because he did say a whole lot that I didn't already know. There is some great video footage in there, and the stuff in Iraq and Lila Lipscomb is heart-breaking.

A few poignant moments:

--Any of the obnoxiously self-congratulatory sequences of Bush, like where he's skeet shooting and makes the shot only to act annoyed when nobody tells him "nice shot." Then, he basically demands/fishes for the compliment.

--Showing how we give and recieve support for the war in Iraq to/from a nation that still participates in public beheadings (Saudi Arabia).

--The clip of what Bush has to say about fallen troops during one of Lila's breakdowns.


Meh, I'll stop there. I really enjoyed the movie.

[Razorback]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Meh, I'll stop there. I really enjoyed the movie.

[/ QUOTE ]

My friend, the converted always enjoy the sermon.

[ben790]

I registered for this idots forum jsut say: YOU ALL NEED TO EGT REAL LIVES AND IN TOUCH WITH REALITY THAT ENCOURAGES INTELIGENT DISCUSSIONS.

The stupidity expressed here should be embarassing to all, including me for having spent 10 minutes of my valuable life reading it and sending this response.

I am exiting here and will never be back so don't bother responding!

[Razorback]

Irony!

[TomHarrington]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
INTELIGENT

[/ QUOTE ]

You could've just posted this and saved some time.

[karmattack]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
My friend, the converted always enjoy the sermon.

[/ QUOTE ] I hope by "converted" you aren't implying that I wasn't thinking for myself or watching the movie objectively. If you're making a "preaching to the choir" comment, that's definitely true.

[Omaru]

Not all the perverted enjoy the semen, I know I certainly don't.
Re-reads what Razorback typed
Oh.... Nevermind.

[Razorback]

The choir.

[Dave]

You guys are totally of base with this thing. the question isn't "Is Michael Moore's movie truthful?". The question is, "When was Michael Moore's last bath?" Seriously Mike, it's called a shower, get in it.

[Razorback]

He is trying to reach out to his stinky European fanbase. He has to fit in or they might not give him a Pompous'Delicious next year for his movie "Americans Eat Third World Babies."

[Mighty_Wingman]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
He has to fit in or they might not give him a Pompous'Delicious next year for his movie "Americans Eat Third World Babies."

[/ QUOTE ]

After three hours on a spit, over a " roasting hot " fire and little BBQ sauce who wouldn't ?

[Razorback]

That makes me hungry...