Ain't It Crappy News -- Green Hornet

[karmattack]

Sorry to post two things from AICN in a row, but I found this in the same post Moriarty put his open letter to the Coens in. This is thought provoking and I'm not quite sure how I feel about it:

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In a recent article about THE GREEN HORNET, Kevin Smith talked about his decision to finally make an action film. He says someone assured him that he wouldn’t have to actually direct any of his action scenes himself. He was told that Bryan Singer barely directs any of the X-MEN movies, something that seemed to give Kevin some degree of comfort. But whoever told Kevin that was doing him and his eventual audience a disservice. Yes, there are guys like David Ellis who come in and do amazing jobs delivering second-unit work, but what makes KILL BILL so exciting for me, especially during the action scenes, is knowing that Tarantino wasn’t using a second unit. Like Guillermo Del Toro, he knows that shooting it all is the only way to put your stamp on those scenes. He didn’t hand the action off to someone else. Instead, he forced himself to learn how to shoot it. It helps that he had the amazing cinematographer Robert Richardson shooting, but the personal fingerprints of Tarantino are all over every frame of the film. Even his choice of film stock in certain scenes is a knowing joke.

[/ QUOTE ] Post responses in 3.......2........1.....

[Razorback]

*head scratch*

[karmattack]

What does that mean?

[Threadkiller]

Mistake number one is comparing Kevin Smith to QT. Kevin is not in love with the visual media of cinema. Kevin didn't spend his youth studying and admiring camera angles and classic films.

That said, I believe the only reason Kevin directs the movies he writes is so that he can make sure they aren't butchered or changed by a different director. That, and he got a reputation as a director since, in the beginning, the only way he could see one of his scripts directed was to do it himself.

I have absolutely no problem with Kevin handing stuff off to a second unit. Some directors like to hold the camera themselves and some don't. It's a matter of style. A movie is never an individual effort and every member of the crew has to find and know their place. Part of a director's job is to help define those places. Delegating that stuff doesn't mean he's removing himself from the artistic process of directing.

[Ryall]

I concur. For Moriarty to say that tells me he doesn't really have a good understanding of just what a director, and also a First AD, a cinematographer and others involved, actually do on a set.

Well, that's not fair. He DID spend time on the set of THE REAL CANCUN, so I'm sure he's well-versed in the way all proper film directors work.

Snarky comments aside, I don't see any reason for us to all attack the guy or anything here, either (do as I say, not as I do, evidently) or start some rivalry or any such thing. But I don't agree with his take, anyway.

[Matt1]

I might have had a problem with Kevin handing off his action scenes to second-unit folks if he was one of those Directors who put the, "A Film by" at the start of the opening credits.

[karmattack]

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...if he was one of those Directors who put the, "A Film by" at the start of the opening credits.

[/ QUOTE ] I guess I've just been making the mistake of thinking of him that way. I think of his flicks as "Kevin Smith movies," and it just appears that is becoming less and less so.

I'm not trying to get down on the guy, but I guess the way I look at something like this and partially where Moriarty seems to be coming from is, why direct an action/adventure movie if you can't or don't want to direct the action or adventure?

I know how movies are made, and I understand the concept of a Director of Photography and 2nd units as an aid or guide, but I can't help but feel like handing the whole portion over is the Milli Vanilli of movie directing.

Or maybe I'm just being an armchair movie Hitler.

[Threadkiller]

I hate to bring this back to another topic but isn't that basically what is happening with every CGI action scene in movies like LOTR and the Star Wars prequels? Sure the director still has some control but ultimately, what you are seeing is someone else's creation and vision.

And if that is true about Brian Singer, do you really think that the X-Men movies are a Vanilliesque product (what a fun word vanilliesque)? If so, then break out my cd player, it's time to groove to some Blame it on the Rain.

I have nothing against Moriarty at all for saying it. I think it's cool to like a director so much that you want to see as much of his work as possible, even if it's work that he's not particularly skilled at.

[karmattack]

Yeah, I commented about Bryan Singer in my initial post and then deleted that portion to avoid being more hot-winded. X2 is an awesome movie, and I'm sure Green Hornet will be too. It's just the realization that X2 isn't a "Bryan Singer movie," that gets me down. I loved The Usual Suspects and Apt Pupil, but I also have no idea how much Bryan Singer was behind the camera and planning of those either.

I guess these guys are in the same league because they do so much of their directing in the editing room. I guess I just don't see that as "directing."

[Razorback]

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I hate to bring this back to another topic but isn't that basically what is happening with every CGI action scene in movies like LOTR and the Star Wars prequels? Sure the director still has some control but ultimately, what you are seeing is someone else's creation and vision.

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It is a collaboration. That is why ALL action movies have a stunt coordinator, a fight choreographer, and/or a weapons specialist (and more). I think that Moriarty is just responding in this way to respond.

Does he also think that a director who doesn't operate his own camera, engineer his own cinematography, design his own audio track and score, or direct his second unit is cheating?

What a crock of shit.

[karmattack]

It's not about cheating. I guess it's my mistake for the Milli Vanilli joke. I know how movies are made, and we all know Mort does too. It's about what he said when he brought up QT -- having your fingerprint on every aspect of the movie, making it all your own, learning. Kevin's just not that type of director and I thought he was.
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It is a collaboration. That is why ALL action movies have a stun coordinator, a fight choreographer, and/or a weapons specialist (and more).

[/ QUOTE ] You're right; it IS a collaboration. Though, not all action movies have a stunt coordinator and fight choreographer because they handle all the responsibility of designing sequences and filming. There are issues of liability and safety that they cover, but the director still has his/her hand in directing and designing what happens.

I keep thinking of this scenario in my head:

Man #1: "I want to be a guitarist in a heavy metal band."

Man #2: "Sounds good. I happen to be a producer for a heavy metal band who needs a guitarist. When can you start?"

Man #1: "Awesome! Well, there is one problem. I can only play folk songs on an acoustic guitar. I have no idea how to play heavy metal."

Man #2: "Well that's no big deal. You just stand out front and do what you feel comfortable with. We'll hire a second guitarist who knows how to play heavy metal to actually play the guitar."

[Razorback]

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I keep thinking of this scenario in my head:

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You are talking about the Sex Pistols.

[Threadkiller]

The thing about that folk guitar analogy is that a heavy metal band doesn't need a folk guitarist. A movie does need someone who can direct actors, write dialogue and direct dramatic as well as action sequences. So here's a different analogy:

Man 1: I want to play guitar in a heavy metal band and write songs for the band.

Man 2: Great, I'm a producer who is lining up a heavy metal band. When can you start?

Man 1: Right now, only problem is that I am best at rhythym guitar and the songs I'm writing really could use a rhythym and a lead guitar.

Man 2: No problem, we can line up an excellent lead guitar for the band.

Would you feel differently if Kevin were only writing the script to Green Hornet and someone else was directing it? Personally, I'd rather see Kevin do this than go the route of say, Richard Linklater and just never write an ounce of action into a script.

[karmattack]

Good analogy.

I guess I am just a movie and art snob. I think all directors should at least be aspiring to be a Hendrix. I know that's dumb, but that's what I admire in a filmmaker. But that's just me, I suppose.

[Efexeye]

I guess the way I feel about it is this: Kevin has said before that he has no visual style, and that he is very much a literalist in his work, so having someone who knows how to choreograph and shoot action lending their talents to the production will only make for a better movie.

[BAMSS04]

I have to say, I kind of admire a guy who whould rather hand off his project than let it be ruined. That takes balls. To say you need help most of the time is a step towards perfection.

[Matt1]

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Or maybe I'm just being an armchair movie Hitler.

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It's ok. From now on just leave being a movie Hitler to McG.

[Dr3vil]

Smith's only experience in the action genre is comics. He can write kick ass comics, but he always had someone else, the artist, to actually draw the shit. People are bitching because movies typically aren't a collaborative medium to the public. Sure the work of hundreds of talented people is poured into them, but the marketing blitz only has time for a few key actors and the director, and most people only get hooked by a single buzz-name. Kevin Smith is the only buzz name on this production so far, so a minimization of his role is seen to detract from the movie as a whole, while all it really does is distract slightly from its marketability. A movie involves a lot of people, the movie wouldn't evaporate without Kevin Smith and his effort alone isn't going to make it good, so who cares if collaborates with someone as long as they're good?

Movie critics are a lot like movie goers, short attention spans, quick to complaints, and easily programmed, just more pompous.

[karmattack]

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He can write kick ass comics, but he always had someone else, the artist, to actually draw the shit.

[/ QUOTE ] Thanks for sort of making my point. Maybe Smith should think about being the "writer" and handing over the artistry to the one with the vision. I understand how big a deal editing authority is, but does Kevin even get final edit?

There's something to be said for writer/directors like PT Anderson, Quentin Tarantino, Wes Anderson, the Coen Brothers. By the points you all are making, it's mostly that Kevin shouldn't be at all compared to them.

[DarthMaulRat]

I don't care who does the action scenes, as long as they're where Kev places them. I think the studios knew what they were doing when they commissioned Smith to write and direct. After all, this is the guy who refused to do Superman after the studios told him it was a 'toy movie'. I hope he makes a movie that redefines what we call a comic book flick.

[karmattack]

I agree, and I do have hopes for the movie. I may or may not be playing a little devil's advocate here. [shrug]

I think a lot of the mixed reaction for me also comes from wondering why he balked in the first place. Like, did he have too much respect for the project and thought his lack of visual sense would drag down the action and the whole movie? Or, was he just too intimidated? Aye una diferencia.