Guantanamo Bay: Are the detentions justified? [Archive]

Jack_Sparrow

10-12-2003, 01:32 PM

Just reading this on the BBC page, for what its worth i believe that anyone having links to terrorist organisations foreits most of their "so-called" rights when they start poltting and contributing to human lives being lost!

A senior Red Cross official has launched a rare attack on the US detention of al-Qaeda and Taleban suspects at Guantanamo Bay.

Christophe Girod told the New York Times it was unacceptable that the 600 detainees should be held for open-ended terms without proper legal process.

www.bbc.co.uk (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/3180424.stm)

His criticism came as a group of American former judges, diplomats and military officers called on the US Supreme Court to examine the legality of holding the foreign nationals for almost two years, without trial, charge or access to lawyers.

Do you think the detentions are necessary? Do they make the world safer? Send us your comments

Razorback

10-12-2003, 04:04 PM

I don't think that holding them without a trial is just, but then I don't give two shits about their well being either.

RB

Matt1

10-12-2003, 06:01 PM

I don't really care about the foreign nationals. They can rot for all I care.

It's the Americans that are being held without trial that bother me. It is setting a really awful precedent.

Psyche

10-13-2003, 03:20 PM

i dont think it's fair that they havent had a trial yet. they may have made the wrong decision in who to believe/follow, but that doesn't mean they don't deserve to be treated like human beings. if we don't treat them with the same respect we expect to receive as human beings, then we are no better then those who bring terror to our lives

Zens_7s

10-13-2003, 03:41 PM

They are treated like human beings. In fact, the base is following the strict orders of the Geneva Convention. They are fed three healthy meals a day and clothed and sheltered in the same manner that our own soldiers are. The irony is that most of these people are better provided for than they were in their homelands and it is at the American taxpayers expense. Meanwhile our captured solidiers are not treated according to Geneva convention guidelines and are tortured, starved, and brutualized.

DarthMaulRat

10-13-2003, 04:23 PM

The whole trial thing is complete crap. The govt. did the same thing after 9/11, taking citizens out of their homes with no obligation to tell anyone why, then detaining them without trial. I think that was the extent of the first Patriot Act. There's also a Patriot Act 2 on the shelf, that would've invaded our own personal security even further. So, if this can be done to an American citizen, I can only imagine how unjust it is what we do to prisoners of other countries.

As for the Geneva Convention, I'm sure the US has broken those rules all the time. We just don't make a big public mess of it.

Psyche

10-13-2003, 04:45 PM

yea but they have yet to get a trial. it's like kevin mitchnik(sp?) all over again. the whole 'imprison and hold till we have evidence' practice.

Zens_7s

10-13-2003, 05:03 PM

I didn't say anything about trials. I simply stated that their basic needs as human beings are being met.

Razorback

10-13-2003, 05:04 PM

I would care, if some of these guys hadn't been involved in (or actively trying be involved in) the murders of thousands of my neighbors. As long as they are being treated better than they wanted to treat us, fuck 'em. If there are Americans there who have not been given a fair trial, then they should be brought home so they can be raped in prison, or some other happy [censored].

RB

Psyche

10-13-2003, 05:10 PM

the men that were involved in 9.11 died that day..save osama bin laden. these are just the grunts of al quaeda. just b/c they were brainwashed doesnt mean they don't deserve to get a fair trial.

Razorback

10-13-2003, 05:35 PM

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />
the men that were involved in 9.11 died that day..save osama bin laden. these are just the grunts of al quaeda. just b/c they were brainwashed doesnt mean they don't deserve to get a fair trial.

[/ QUOTE ]

Welcome to planet Earth. If you need someone to show you around, ask a homeless person, since it seems that you and they have been collaborating on national intelligence. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

Sorry, I just couldn't help but say that... it came to my head and sounded funny and I just couldn't stop myself from typing it. /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

Seriously though, unless you have some information that I have not heard, we do not know who they are or what their job in any terrorist organization has been, or what they were tasked with doing after 9/11.

RB

Psyche

10-13-2003, 05:38 PM

i'll stop arguing about this b/c this all is really a matter of opinion and i don't have the energy or the time to argue over matters of opinion

Razorback

10-13-2003, 05:40 PM

I hear ya.

RB

GoreFollower

10-13-2003, 05:41 PM

uhhhhhh...me too!

Zens_7s

10-13-2003, 05:42 PM

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />
i'll stop arguing about this b/c this all is really a matter of opinion and i don't have the energy or the time to argue over matters of opinion

[/ QUOTE ]

Translation: I don't actually have any arguing points for a rebuttal so I am sunk.

Razorback

10-13-2003, 05:43 PM

I was trying to be more diplomatic about it. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

RB

Matthew

10-13-2003, 05:43 PM

I think that would be the first "translation for women" I have seen!

Thanks Zens!

Matt1

10-13-2003, 05:46 PM

Timothy McVeigh was given a trial. I think any American citizen being held deserves one as well. And hopefully, they'll get the death penalty for treason.

I'm more concerned about the fact that they haven't received a trial or been charged with anything, than I am with their living conditions.

Matthew

10-13-2003, 05:48 PM

I think the penalty for treason is expulsion from the country?

Psyche

10-13-2003, 05:50 PM

uhm no..i just believe what i believe and you're going to believe what you believe. id probably get in trouble for some of my opinions. and id no doubt offend someone and id rather refrain from that. there are more important things in life then trying to argue over some matter of opinion on an internet message board. i mean if you want me to say what i believe i will, and risk offending many people on this message board. but, in my opinion that is very inconsiderate so i have refrained from it.

Matt1

10-13-2003, 05:50 PM

I think the Rosenberg's would disagree. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

Razorback

10-13-2003, 05:54 PM

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />
And hopefully, they'll get the death penalty for treason

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like the death penalty. I would rather see them spend a few decades in jail.

RB

Razorback

10-13-2003, 05:57 PM

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />
uhm no..i just believe what i believe and you're going to believe what you believe. id probably get in trouble for some of my opinions. and id no doubt offend someone and id rather refrain from that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bring it on. I think everything you have said is conjecture. I don't think you have any facts to back up your opinions. I would love to debate you about this... feel free to offend because I will be more than willing to point out where I see obvious flaws in your argument.

RB

Psyche

10-13-2003, 06:00 PM

i only offend in private =p i refuse to offend en mass

Matt1

10-13-2003, 06:01 PM

I'm pro-death. Pro-death penalty, pro-abortion, pro-euthanasia. Death, in my opinion, is a sorely underused solution.

C'mon people! Let's all sing!

Give death a chance...

Razorback

10-13-2003, 06:08 PM

I am against abortion past the first trimester unless it is to save the mothers life or due to any other dangerous medical condition; against the death penalty, and for euthanasia for the terminally ill.

RB

Matthew

10-13-2003, 06:11 PM

Pro-Life
Pro-Death Penalty
Anti-Euthanasia
Pro-Pulling The Plug if you are brain dead though.

Zens_7s

10-13-2003, 06:25 PM

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />
Pro-Pulling The Plug if you are brain dead though.

[/ QUOTE ] There are some people around here that should be fearing for their lives. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

Matthew

10-13-2003, 06:27 PM

Good one again Zens! Man you are a funny girl tonight!

Zens_7s

10-13-2003, 06:29 PM

Thanks, Matthew. I have to run out of em' pretty soon here. I am about pooped. (pun intended) This has been an all around exciting two days at the shoot!

Matt1

10-13-2003, 06:32 PM

I was just making a little joke. Let's not open up the abortion debate, shall we?

Zens_7s

10-13-2003, 06:33 PM

Hey! Lets abort that debate before it reaches 6 posts! Nobody wants it anyway.

Psyche

10-13-2003, 09:08 PM

im pro-choice, pro-death penalty, pro-euthenasia, and pro-castrating sex offenders. like..not chemical castration. im talkin lorana bobbit castration. lorana bobbit + blender castration

Matt1

10-14-2003, 03:58 AM

I like you. Let's be friends. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

Dr3vil

10-14-2003, 04:44 AM

I'm Pro-Death and abortion includes that. I don't find it a very fun debate since usually one side values life more sacred than choice, the other choice more sacred than life, and they just shout about it for an hour. I find only a degree of value in both conceptions, so on the basis of the net benefit to society, I'm all for baby murdering.

Sides, abortions clinics are great places to meet loose women, and ya can't exactly have the clinics without it...

ILovePapaSmurf

10-14-2003, 04:50 AM

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />
Sides, abortions clinics are great places to meet loose women, and ya can't exactly have the clinics without it...

[/ QUOTE ]

You are an [censored] for posting that.

Psyche

10-14-2003, 01:59 PM

ok =]

Robbo_the_Hood

10-14-2003, 03:57 PM

Well, someone never saw Dogma.

And I think I'll let Mr. Bill Hicks do the talking for me here:
"I'm for whatever gets the highway moving faster."

That being said, I'm a firm believer in the practice of Natrual Selection. If a girl wants to have an abortion then fine. It's her genes that don't reproduce and have a chance at evolving. She's taking herself out of the circle of life. I'm never going to have an abortion, so I really shouldn't have an opinion on it.

I don't own any firearms, because I'm secure in my manhood. And I'm not saying no one will ever break into my home and spray .22 calibur bullets into my chest, but odds are in my favor. I have a deadbolt. And if the scenario should occur, I chose not to adapt and as a result, my genes aren't passed on to evolve.

Do I think we should take away guns? Regardless, it's too late now. If someone wants to create civil unrest in this country, then let that person or group take away all the guns. That would be the best reality programming ever.

Jack_Sparrow

10-14-2003, 04:20 PM

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />
I don't own any firearms, because I'm secure in my manhood. And I'm not saying no one will ever break into my home and spray .22 calibur bullets into my chest, but odds are in my favor. I have a deadbolt. And if the scenario should occur, I chose not to adapt and as a result, my genes aren't passed on to evolve

[/ QUOTE ]

Wise words indeed !! A good code to live by methinks !

ILovePapaSmurf

10-14-2003, 04:23 PM

No, I saw Dogma, but what he was talking about earlier in his post was kind of a jerk thing to put in his topic. Trust me I was tired last night and movies are the last thing on my mind when he had posted something shitty like he did before that line.

I don't know, yesterday I was tired and bitchy, so whatever... /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

karmattack

10-14-2003, 04:26 PM

Not to carry conversations from other threads into this one, but that's the reason I got rid of my handgun (not the Bill Hicks quote, but the same idea that inspired it). That and I believe between my mind and Life/God, I could find a better solution to a conflict than slamming a .9mm hollow point through someone.

ILovePapaSmurf

10-14-2003, 04:29 PM

I'm all for guns in the house ONLY if they are protecting themselves or a family member.

I feel a little safer knowing that there is something else to protect me if that type of situation would occur.

And and Robbo, why would you even care what I post, no one really reads my posts anyways. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

Razorback

10-14-2003, 04:31 PM

I am so proud of you. Plus, now I know who to go after first. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

RB

Robbo_the_Hood

10-14-2003, 04:35 PM

sometimes I end up reading the most obscure things here.

Jack_Sparrow

10-14-2003, 04:35 PM

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />
That and I believe between my mind and Life/God, I could find a better solution to a conflict than slamming a .9mm hollow point through someone.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe to live by this set of rules takes alot of confidence. I admire it!!.

For what its worth Bill Hicks spoke an awful lot of sense and is very sadly missed.

armyantmatt

10-14-2003, 04:35 PM

Aren't the "let them rot" people here at all worried that some of the detainees may have absolutely nothing to do with terrorism at all? I certainly hope they are all being treated fairly, (food, shelter, etc.) but can you really consider their treatment fair if they might be innocent? With no charges, and no trials, they are being held for absolutely nothing. This sets a dangerous precedent, I think, our ideas of how to treat people from other countries are already getting worse. Check out this link for an example: U.S. soldier's fiance deported (http://www.gazette.com/popupNews.php?id=595347)

Robbo_the_Hood

10-14-2003, 04:39 PM

What? He's trying to hijack the thread to bring it back on topic. Isn't that illegal?

And RB's proud of me. Forget making ammends with my dad.

karmattack

10-14-2003, 04:43 PM

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />
I'm all for guns in the house ONLY if they are protecting themselves or a family member.

I feel a little safer knowing that there is something else to protect me if that type of situation would occur.

[/ QUOTE ] Yeah, that's the reason I purchased the handgun in the first place. I lived with my then-fiance' in an area of Flint where I could hear gunshots at just about any hour of the night. Before the apartment we lived in was rezoned, renovated and changed owners (and before we lived there), a girl was raped and killed in the lobby. A person I know was killed in an alley nearby, and they just found a body stashed right around the corner from where we lived. My friend's car was broken into just outside, I was constantly getting yelled at for walking around and being white AND the kicker was when somone actually walked into our apartment while Renee and I were taking a shower. Luckily, nothing happened but that's why I bought a gun.

Even after all that, and in some ways because of it, I realized I just don't want to resort to that type of violence. That's my personal take on the matter.

Razorback

10-14-2003, 04:45 PM

I only own 12 firearms, and I still feel like I need more. Granted, I live in the safest town in NJ, but you never know when gramma from next door might attack!

RB

karmattack

10-14-2003, 04:46 PM

Thanks for the compliment, Jack.

psychofiend

10-14-2003, 05:21 PM

In reply to something I read before about pro-choice... I am pro-life but I don't fuck with pro-choice people because they have a way of "getting rid of" people they don't want around.

Psyche

10-15-2003, 02:26 PM

we never really treated people from other countries right in the first place. hell the british came over and pushed the native americans out. and that's my point exactly too. yea they're getting food and shelter, but if they're criminals they should be charged with a crime and have had a trial already. which is exactly what's not happening

Matt1

10-15-2003, 10:46 PM

As I've said before, I don't really care about any of the foreign nationals we're holding.

What I do care about is the American citizens being held.

Here's a good ARTICLE (http://www.joebobbriggs.com/specialreports/20030923.html) that puts it better than I could.

Dr3vil

10-15-2003, 11:21 PM

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />
I only own 12 firearms, and I still feel like I need more. Granted, I live in the safest town in NJ, but you never know when gramma from next door might attack!

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand having something to keep under your pillow, but what if said criminal breaks into your armory? o_O

I think if I ever spent that much on weaponry I'd really have to shoot somebody, no matter whose grandmother it was, to feel I got my money's worth.